Driver shouting "Allahu Akbar" hits crowd of pedestrians in France

[BattlingNelson]

Democracy in most western countries is a facade.

Really? How so?

Freedom of speech? You're kidding right.

No. Why do you think so?

Religious freedoms? Don't you want all muslims including the 99% non-violent ones deported from Europe. Woman, children and all?

No. Only those who does not want to assimilate.

Let's confiscate any wealth they have accumulated, round them up, pack them onto a boat and ship them the **** out to god knows where.

Ermmm.... What are you babbling about?

[Adamjr91]

Really? How so?

No. Why do you think so?

No. Only those who does not want to assimilate.


Ermmm.... What are you babbling about?

Using America as an example:

You have a two party system which is back by billions of corporate dollars

One party wants to increase tax and spending, the other wants to decrease tax and spending. They want the overall status Quo to remain the same.

Running as an independent is impossible. You're excluded from TV debates and you don't get any media coverage

General Election turnout rates hover just above 50%.

Congressional election turnout rates is at a 72 year low, 36% of 'eligible' voters.

That is not a democracy.

[Szef]

what does stalin and mao killing their own people wayyyy back then have to do with islamic terrorism today?

/thread ....

[kiDynamite92]

In your mind, Muslims played no role. And why are you so upset about WW1. Most of the people killed were Europeans. You should be happy about it.

In the Balkans, the Ottomans were a big problem as they were trying to spread their influence and had already started committing genocide against Christians. That brought Russia into the mix to protect Christians.

Well It's a WORLD WAR. The ottomans were a powerful nation then and they would have to play a part if it's a world war wouldn't they?

That's WW2.

Hot me there

This is what Muslims ALWAYS say (about being only against Zionists, not Jews as a whole). So you're saying it's not true and that Muslims ARE against Jews as a whole, not simply Zionists?

I'm not putting your words into your mouth, I'm simply bringing up the fact that Muslims ALWAYS use the line 'we're against Zionists, not Jews'. So you disagree with that?



You're not following. I am not talking about the migration of Jews from Europe into Palestine, I'm talking about the exodus of Jews from Muslim lands after Israel was created. Muslims always say they're only against Zionists and not Jews as a whole (you just said they weren't against the "Jewish religion"). Well then why were Jews driven out of the Arab Muslim world after Israel's creation?

The problem between Muslims and Jews today is over Palestine and Israel. I never use the word Zionist, I just call them Israeli's. I realize 25% of Israel's population are Muslims but they're seen as Palestinians. The reason those Jews were kicked out was because of the Muslims anger towards Israeli's in repose to the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians and any Jew, anywhere in the world, including Arab nations were considered citizens of Israel by Israel itself. That's why they were kicked out. So you can say they weren't against their religion but the regime they were a part of.

Okay then, so it would be okay for Europeans to start calling for the expelling/death of all Muslims in Europe!

Haven't they already started?

You're not following lol. Why would Jews have to be expelled by Muslims from Muslims lands after Israel was created? Why would those Jews have to be run out of Muslim lands? You're making no sense. The only reason is, Muslims aren't simply against just Zionists, but Jews as a whole.

Okay that has nothing to do with this lol, I asked you about why life became unsafe for Jews in Muslim lands, so much so, they were expelled? Why would these Jews have to be expelled from Muslim lands because Israel was created?

Why's that?

See above, it's because of the regime they were a part of.

And it backfired because I brought up Islamic history which is blood-soaked too, therefore exposing your own hypocrisy. You really can't start bringing up imperialism, slavery & genocide when Muslims have been doing all that since Islam's creation.

All Muslims are never called terrorists by anyone with influence. Now, the Islamic religion is regularly called a hateful, bigoted, violent religion, but that's because of its teachings. That is very different to calling all Muslims terrorists. And I'd extend the same criticism to Christianity & Judaism due to the Old Testament. Like I said, the Abrahamic religions have been very bad for humanity.

But the double-standard lies with you and was exposed by me as I responded with facts about Islamic history. You actually asked 'was it Muslims who enslaved Africans'? YES. YES IT WAS.

You're not getting it! Look back a couple of pages where I clearly stated that I'm not saying that Islam is some peaceful religion but that when applied is the better then half the **** out there, here a link to it!

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...8#post15216448

Also I wasn't saying that all Muslims are referred to as terrorist but that the word terrorist is exclusively used against Muslims. Here a link to earlier on when I said that!

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...0#post15216560

[LSKennedy]

Holy ****. Do you really believe that?

So the USA is still in Iraq? LOL

So America spent trillions of dollars to rid Iraq of Saddam only to walk away from Iraq's ocean of Oil underground? That sounds like the USA all over.

Then give me evidence which proves the USA is stealing oil from Iraq.

That video was in response to the claims that Muslims couldn't ever have an advanced nation.

Advancements in science & maths were made, but by a tiny group of men. And only because Muslims conquered lands and came across ancient knowledge from India, Persia, Greece, Rome, Egypt & elsewhere. If Muslims had stayed in the Arabian peninsula (modern day Saudi Arabia), would these advancements been made? Yeah right. A tiny group of men made those advancements and Islam had nothing to do with it. If Islam really was responsible for this period of great learning which Muslims refer to as the 'Islamic golden age', why then isn't the Muslim world at the forefront of scientific learning today? At the very least it would be A LOT better off than it is.

This whole idea that Moorish Spain was some kind of utopia is nonsense. Non-Muslims lived in fear (of offending Muslims... sound familiar?), had to live as second class citizens and there were constant battles between Muslims & Spaniards, as the Spaniards were trying to retake their country.

Sorry dude, but yeah, as far as I can see, wherever Islamic influence increases in non-Muslim lands, it usually results in the suffering of those non-Muslims.

That poster posted a video with Neil Tyson Degrasse in it to show that religons erode progress, then I posted a video with the same guy in it to counter his arguments that Muslims CAN have a nation which is at the forefront of science!

Okay, they CAN... but what are the odds? And if it does happen, it certainly wasn't BECAUSE of Islam. To state otherwise would be like saying the Enlightenment was because of Christianity. Europe (and others) makes so much progress in science today because of free-thinking, not Christianity. Religion really shuts down original thought, hence the Dark Ages.

But the USA is looking to change the whole political set up of the country through force

Could you expand in detail, please.

killing 500,000 people if they have to to bring about that change and when it does it becomes even worse.

500,000 is a gross overestimation and those innocents that were killed weren't killed intentionally. What would be the point? The goal was to get rid of Saddam because of a belief he had WMDs and create a stable state. No WMDs were found and Saddam was gotten rid of. Unfortunately, a stable state was not created and extremists have gained some kind of power now. The USA cannot be blamed for Islamic extremism existing in Iraq because Islamic extremism exists in countries the USA never invaded, like Nigeria for example.

Meanwhile if anyone else tries to get them they'll be blown to bits.

As I said, the USA doesn't talk about wiping countries off the face of the planet. Iran says that.

Also how many American Indians had to be slaughtered, thrown out of their homes and forced to submit to Western law for 3 centuries now.

Many, and am I supposed to believe it would have been any different if Muslims had made it to the Americas before the Christians of Europe, bearing in mind the atrocities committed by Muslims in the Old World? Especially considering the Native Americans weren't 'people of the book' (i.e. Christian & Jew). If the Native Americans had rejected Islam and then tried to get rid of their new Muslim neighbours, would it have really been any different to the suffering brought upon them by the European Christians?

And there's your solution, if it's their problem it should be left to them to sort, you shouldn't interfere just because you think what could have been?

LOL! It's people like you who condemn military intervention. But now you're saying military intervention is okay? Damned if you do, damned if you don't. If you invade to stop innocent people from being slaughtered, you're an evil western imperialist, and if you allow them to get along with the slaughter & not invade, you're standing by and allowing evil to take place. Just unbelievable.

I'm pretty sure Bin Laden had a dream to see America would be so financially wrecked, it spending trillions each year to support the wars it was involved in. I guess that why he flew those planes into the towers right? To drain america and if he didn't America could have been even stronger.

This is a nonsensical mess and I'm not even going to bother trying to respond to it.

Dunno about that, but Al Qaeeda and the Taliban certainly were without doubt.

Once again, you have a very simplistic, propagandist view of things. The US did not train the Taliban because it liked the idea of skilled Islamic extremists with weapons. It trained the Taliban so they could defend themselves from the Marxists of Afghanistan who were allied with the Soviet invaders. The US cannot be blamed for what the Taliban is doing today. To attempt to do so is ABSURD, and you know it.

Also America was helping fund the free Syrian Army to take down Assad which led in a way to the creation of more radical groups.

What are the names of those groups?

When did Iran do that?

Iranian leaders regularly talk of wiping Israel off the map.

Also America has threatened Iran on how many occasions, a nuclear super power making threats against a tiny nation. Maybe if they had nukes they could defend themselves.

Once again, your propaganda is clear to everyone. The USA has never threatened to wipe Iran off the face of the planet. Neither is Iran a "tiny nation". It's massive and has a population of nearly 80 million.

And nukes would not be about self-defence because there'd be no way they could hit the US from Iran. Iran attempting to gain nukes is purely about Israel's existence.

[kiDynamite92]

Meltdown alert. No one's saying Muslims are the only people to commit evil in history so your argument is stupid.

Funny thing is, it's Muslims who are constantly blaming Jews/Christians/Illuminati/Freemasons etc etc for everything. ISIS slaughtering innocents in Syria & Iraq? They're actually Jews, not Muslims.

Well most people think that the only people who can commit terror is Muslims, which is what I've been going on about this whole time.

The funny thing with with ISIS was that Assad was warning America that this would happen, that those rebels they were funding to overthrow him were going to become really radical and they still went ahead and gave them arms! The same was being said about their invasion of Iraq, Saddam was no angel, but at least with him around he had every single gangster terrorist by the balls. What happened? America threw him out of power. Why doesn't the west take responsibility for how they've contributed to these problems. Wasn't Al Qaeeda created by America, wasn't Bush sr friends with Osama befpre and trained up his radical gang and let them loose? Then when they attack them a nation which they set them free into ends up paying the price! Why doesn't America look at the part they played in 9/11 instead of pointing the finger.

Most people don't know? You have to be kidding me. Europeans are forever reminded how evil they are because of atrocities committed through history by European states... even if they're Eastern European, Irish or some other nationality which had absolutely nothing to do with colonialism & slavery. Europeans are just lumped into one big block and told how they must feel guilty because of what "their ancestors did" (regardless of whether their ancestors really did commit those atrocities). Muslims however take GREAT pride in their imperial success i.e. 700 year Moorish rule in Spain & Portugal and how much land Muhammad was able to conquer in such a short period of time, along with all the other conquests they were responsible for.

When Europeans do it, it's bad. When Muslims do it, it's okay.

Which Muslims are these?

Also Europeans take so much pride in what they've done! Didn't the PM of Australia say that the land which it exists on now was nothing before the European colonisation? Are Americans not really patriotic taking pride in the lands which they took from the American Indians? How about New Zealand? Every citizen of NZ who can show that one of there great grand parents were from the UK can become a UK citizen with ease!

[BattlingNelson]

Using America as an example:

You have a two party system which is back by billions of corporate dollars

One party wants to increase tax and spending, the other wants to decrease tax and spending. They want the overall status Quo to remain the same.

Running as an independent is impossible. You're excluded from TV debates and you don't get any media coverage

General Election turnout rates hover just above 50%.

Congressional election turnout rates is at a 72 year low, 36% of 'eligible' voters.

That is not a democracy.

Take western Europe instead. That is what we are talking about anyway.

You skipped the rest of the questions (and failed the one you tried).

[Adamjr91]

So the USA is still in Iraq? LOL

Then give me evidence which proves the USA is stealing oil from Iraq.

The US has countless ***8216;contractors***8217; in Iraq. Lets not play games, they have never left.

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/1...bout-iraqs-oil

That is all you need to know about the recent airstrikes in Iraq.

Advancements in science & maths were made, but by a tiny group of men. And only because Muslims conquered lands and came across ancient knowledge from India, Persia, Greece, Rome, Egypt & elsewhere. If Muslims had stayed in the Arabian peninsula (modern day Saudi Arabia), would these advancements been made? Yeah right. A tiny group of men made those advancements and Islam had nothing to do with it. If Islam really was responsible for this period of great learning which Muslims refer to as the 'Islamic golden age', why then isn't the Muslim world at the forefront of scientific learning today? At the very least it would be A LOT better off than it is.

Most technological advancement in the US from the 1930s to today came from German scientists. Think Einsten idiot.

The goal was to get rid of Saddam because of a belief he had WMDs and create a stable state. No WMDs were found and Saddam was gotten rid of. Unfortunately, a stable state was not created and extremists have gained some kind of power now. The USA cannot be blamed for Islamic extremism existing in Iraq because Islamic extremism exists in countries the USA never invaded, like Nigeria for example.

As I said, the USA doesn't talk about wiping countries off the face of the planet. Iran says that.

Iran has never invaded a foreign country in its modern history (over 2000 years). Idiot.

The US cannot be blamed for what the Taliban is doing today. To attempt to do so is ABSURD, and you know it.

Yes they can. No it is no absurd.

Iranian leaders regularly talk of wiping Israel off the map.

Israel has been calling for the US to invade Iran for decades. Not only that but Israel regularly assassinates Iranian citizens.

[Rostov Papa]

No, America ONLY controls Iraq's natural resources.

Well they're doing a pretty terrible job at it considering China is getting more of their oil...

Maybe we get a pretty sweet deal on their dates? Dates are awesome and tasty, after all (no, really - they are awesome).

[kiDynamite92]

Advancements in science & maths were made, but by a tiny group of men. And only because Muslims conquered lands and came across ancient knowledge from India, Persia, Greece, Rome, Egypt & elsewhere. If Muslims had stayed in the Arabian peninsula (modern day Saudi Arabia), would these advancements been made? Yeah right. A tiny group of men made those advancements and Islam had nothing to do with it. If Islam really was responsible for this period of great learning which Muslims refer to as the 'Islamic golden age', why then isn't the Muslim world at the forefront of scientific learning today? At the very least it would be A LOT better off than it is.

This whole idea that Moorish Spain was some kind of utopia is nonsense. Non-Muslims lived in fear (of offending Muslims... sound familiar?), had to live as second class citizens and there were constant battles between Muslims & Spaniards, as the Spaniards were trying to retake their country.

Sorry dude, but yeah, as far as I can see, wherever Islamic influence increases in non-Muslim lands, it usually results in the suffering of those non-Muslims.

Okay, they CAN... but what are the odds? And if it does happen, it certainly wasn't BECAUSE of Islam. To state otherwise would be like saying the Enlightenment was because of Christianity. Europe (and others) makes so much progress in science today because of free-thinking, not Christianity. Religion really shuts down original thought, hence the Dark Ages.

This is why I was saying that post wasn't meant for you. What he claimed was that 'if we let the muslims control and dictate how society lived and progressed,

the entire planet earth would look like sauid arabia and afghanistan.'

Then I countered that argument by showing him how far science advanced during the Islamic golden age. Now ok we can say that Islam wasn't responsible for that and a group of few men were, but then we would also say that western democracy or whatever isn't responsible for the scientific innovations coming out now and that it's because of a select few men.

The Islamic golden age came to an end because of two factors, 1 was the sacking of Bagdad, which was at that time considered the intellectual capital of the world and 2 because science became about making money. Under Islamic law things such as patents cannot exist because knowledge is for everyone to share and benefit. After patents became introduced science was about making money and because they couldn't implement patients their position at the top came crumbling down.

Bagdad became the intellectual capital of the world because when Europe was destroyed by the crusades and all the information was lost, the muslim world still had their copy it up till that point. Back then people from different religions and parts of the world would meet up and discuss their various ideas, today you probably couldn't sit in bagdad without the fear of being bombed.

Could you expand in detail, please.

Well they brought about change in Iraq through force didn't they?
500,000 is a gross overestimation and those innocents that were killed weren't killed intentionally. What would be the point? The goal was to get rid of Saddam because of a belief he had WMDs and create a stable state. No WMDs were found and Saddam was gotten rid of. Unfortunately, a stable state was not created and extremists have gained some kind of power now. The USA cannot be blamed for Islamic extremism existing in Iraq because Islamic extremism exists in countries the USA never invaded, like Nigeria for example.

500,000 was the number estimated by John Hopkins university, one of the best in the world,I'd say that would be very close. Ok so the security council leading up to the war told America to present their evidence beforehand that they have WMD's, America refused and bombed away. Also why can they NOT have WMD's when America itself posses 15x the nukes to blow the world up?

Iraq was pretty unstable itself, full of gangster terrorists, fortunately Sadam showed them who was boss. He was what was keeping that country together and America goes a takes him out. Who else CAN you blame for extremism spreading their but america? It's like someone opening up pandora's box and saying if something bad happens it's not my fault.

As I said, the USA doesn't talk about wiping countries off the face of the planet. Iran says that.

Iran has never threatened to wipe Israel off the map, they've threatened to destroy the Israeli regime! When America wanted to wipe out communism, they didn't want to wipe out the people of that state now do they?

Also Israel has been threatening Iran for years over it's nuclear program when Israel is the ONLY country in the middle east to posses nuclear weapons! Why can't Iran have them? Iran said to Obama that they would like to set up a nuclear free zone in ALL of the Middle east, guess which country was first to say no? Israel!

Many, and am I supposed to believe it would have been any different if Muslims had made it to the Americas before the Christians of Europe, bearing in mind the atrocities committed by Muslims in the Old World? Especially considering the Native Americans weren't 'people of the book' (i.e. Christian & Jew). If the Native Americans had rejected Islam and then tried to get rid of their new Muslim neighbours, would it have really been any different to the suffering brought upon them by the European Christians?

So were going to go off what could have happened? And anyway you're missing my point, what I was trying to show this whole time was that these western nation over time have been much worse then Islam.

LOL! It's people like you who condemn military intervention. But now you're saying military intervention is okay? Damned if you do, damned if you don't. If you invade to stop innocent people from being slaughtered, you're an evil western imperialist, and if you allow them to get along with the slaughter & not invade, you're standing by and allowing evil to take place. Just unbelievable.

When did I say it was OK to intervene? If there is a change that needs to happen in a nation, it must come from the people themselves and it can't be exported over. Also how many people has America been killing across the world in the last few decades? It's just unfortunate that no one can invade them!

Once again, you have a very simplistic, propagandist view of things. The US did not train the Taliban because it liked the idea of skilled Islamic extremists with weapons. It trained the Taliban so they could defend themselves from the Marxists of Afghanistan who were allied with the Soviet invaders. The US cannot be blamed for what the Taliban is doing today. To attempt to do so is ABSURD, and you know it.

Are you crazy? That's like giving a man a gun, teaching him how to shoot and whenever he kills someone with it, you have nothing to do with it! How about stop interfering and ****ing off?

What are the names of those groups?

Well the FSE has been working in conjunction with Al Nusra front.

Iranian leaders regularly talk of wiping Israel off the map.

No they don't, see above.

Once again, your propaganda is clear to everyone. The USA has never threatened to wipe Iran off the face of the planet. Neither is Iran a "tiny nation". It's massive and has a population of nearly 80 million.

I never said they threatened to wipe them out! But they have threatened to destroy their facilities and military. Iran in terms of military in comparison to the US is TINY.

And nukes would not be about self-defence because there'd be no way they could hit the US from Iran. Iran attempting to gain nukes is purely about Israel's existence.

No they're not. If a nation has nukes, everyone knows NOT to attack them or they just shoot them off to wherever they can and start up possibly world war 3. That's why no one would dare to invade North Korea.