Religion vs Science How does it all add up?

[~AK49~]

You said it's evidence of a creator. Look, we can play this game all day long but it's a waste of time. If you believe you believe, but just don't make gigantic leaps of logic because you find some order in the universe. It's not evidence of anything.

I suppose its fair enough of a mistake

Getting defensive are we? I havnt said anything about 'proving Gods existence'. If anything it should be thought provoking, hopefully we are not afraid of thought provoking stuff when it disagrees with our worldview. If that was the case, science would have progressed nowhere. Data suggests we are in a fractal universe. Maybe its all happenstance, and maybe its the signature of something more.

...snip....

Maybe it is all happenstance, and came about from random chaos on so many scales. And maybe, just maybe, its something more, possibly evidence on the methods/means by which a creator created.

I'm not insulting you, I'm just laughing at you're circular arguments. I don't know if there is a creator or a god, when I get real evidence of it, I will be the first one to acknowledge his/it's existence.

Yeah, im not a jehovahs witness, so i wasnt offended. Not sure where the argument is circular. Let me rephrase, you believe change happens (evolution specifically), but outside your own viewpoints, change is impossibru? Enter in the pic of the chevelle. It didnt come out of manufacturing as a rustbucket with all sorts of problems. The elements broke it down.

[PAC-BOY]

Where did the universe come from....How did IT form or begin?

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

Yeah, im not a jehovahs witness, so i wasnt offended. Not sure where the argument is circular. Let me rephrase, you believe change happens (evolution specifically), but outside your own viewpoints, change is impossibru? Enter in the pic of the chevelle. It didnt come out of manufacturing as a rustbucket with all sorts of problems. The elements broke it down.

It is circular because you keep going back to "proof of a creator".

Change is not impossible, as a matter of fact I can't say anything is impossible. The difference is that I believe in things where there is substantial proof. I know that evolution is fact because of the overwhelming fossil and genetic evidence of it.

Basically the entire scientific community agrees with that. Now we can make a gigantic leap that because there is order in the universe, there must be a creator, basically the "watch makers argument".

It's been done a million times and failed a million times because order is no proof of a creator. As a matter of fact, natural selection and individuality supports evolution and science, not creationism.

Like I said, when you give me hard, scientific evidence of a god or this supposed creator, I will be the first to believe in him. I'm not rejecting the possibility of a creator, just need more proof than how nice a tree is, or how the sun rises every morning.

[~AK49~]

It is circular because you keep going back to "proof of a creator".

Change is not impossible, as a matter of fact I can't say anything is impossible. The difference is that I believe in things where there is substantial proof. I know that evolution is fact because of the overwhelming fossil and genetic evidence of it.

Basically the entire scientific community agrees with that. Now we can make a gigantic leap that because there is order in the universe, there must be a creator, basically the "watch makers argument".

It's been done a million times and failed a million times because order is no proof of a creator. As a matter of fact, natural selection and individuality supports evolution and science, not creationism.

Like I said, when you give me hard, scientific evidence of a god or this supposed creator, I will be the first to believe in him. I'm not rejecting the possibility of a creator, just need more proof than how nice a tree is, or how the sun rises every morning.

To be clear, when i said/say "If there is a creator, this would be evidence" i am not saying/alluding to "there is a god and this is the proof". Im a little smarter than that man, give me some credit now lol

We both believe in change. So whats the real question being asked?

[Russian Crushin]

If you create a god that is all powerful and can do anything, then you can attribute anything to him.....& then call it "proof"

[PAC-BOY]

If you create a god that is all powerful and can do anything, then you can attribute anything to him.....& then call it "proof"

Who creates a god?

[Russian Crushin]

Who creates a god?

Just a few, that believe in a god or deity:

Abrahamic religions
A group of monotheistic traditions sometimes grouped with one another for comparative purposes, because all refer to a patriarch named Abraham.

Bábísm
Bahá'í
Bahá'í Faith
Orthodox Bahá'í Faith
Islam
Kharijites
Nation of Islam
*****e
Alawites
Ismailis
Jafari
Zaiddiyah
Ghulat including
Alevi / Bektashi
Ahl-e Haqq
Yazidi
Druze
Ahmadi
Sunni
Berailvi
Deobandi
Hanafi
Hanbali
Maliki
Mu'tazili
Shafi'i
Wahhabi
Sufism
Naqshbandi
Bektashi
Chishti
Mevlevi
Zikri
Judaism (see also: Jew; Hebrews)
Contemporary divisions
Karaite Judaism
Rabbinic Judaism
Orthodox Judaism
Haredi Judaism
Hassidic Judaism
Modern Orthodox Judaism
Reform Judaism
Conservative Judaism (Masorti)
Reconstructionist Judaism (arguably not a religion)
Humanistic Judaism (arguably not a religion)
Historical Sects
Hasmoneans
Essenes
Pharisees
Sadducees
Zealots
Sicarii
sects that believed Jesus was a prophet
Ebionites
Elkasites
Nazarenes
Crypto-Jews
Marranos
Conversos
Christianity (see List of Christian denominations)
Eastern Orthodoxy
Roman Catholicism
Oriental Orthodoxy (Monophysitism)
Nestorianism
Protestantism
Anabaptists
Anglicans
Baptists
Lutherans
Methodists
Pentecostals
Reformed
Calvinism
Presbyterian
Religious Society of Friends (Quakers)
Unitarians
Waldensians
Latter-day Saints
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Community of Christ
Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
Seventh-day Adventist
Jehovah's Witnesses
Messianic Judaism (not actually Judaism but rather Jewish-rite Christianity)
Samaritans
Mandaeanists
Rastafarians
Black Hebrews
Hebrew Christians
[edit]
Dharmic religions
Religions with a concept of Dharma, also major religions of historical India

Hinduism (see also Contemporary Hindu movements)
Agama Hindu Dharma (Javanese Hinduism)
Shaivism
Shaktism
Smartism
Vaishnavism
Gaudiya Vaishnavism
ISKCON (Hare Krishna)
Sri Krishna Chaitanya Mission
Six major schools and movements of Hindu philosophy
Samkhya
Nyaya
Vaisheshika
Purva mimamsa
Vedanta (Uttar Mimamsa)
Advaita Vedanta
Integral Yoga
Yoga
Ashtanga Yoga
Hatha yoga
Siddha Yoga
Tantric Yoga
Ayyavazhi
Shramana Religions
Buddhism (see Schools of Buddhism)
Mahayana
Nikaya schools (which have historically been called Hinayana in the West)
Theravada
Vajrayana (Tantric Buddhism)
Jainism
Digambara
Shvetambara
Panth Religions
Sikhism
Kabir Panth
Dadu Panth
[edit]
Other revealed religions
Believers in one God, also called classical monotheism, who follow an Indo-European culture of belief, philosophy and angelology.

Zoroastrianism
Magus (see Three Wise Men)
Gnosticism
Basilidians
Bogomils
Borborites
Cainites
Carpocratians
Cathars
Marcionism (not entirely Gnostic)
Ophites
Valentinians (see Valentinius)
Hinduism (Vaishnavism)
[edit]
Indigenous religions
The orally transmitted canon of indigenous peoples, many involving some variant of animism and many defunct

African religions
Akamba mythology
Akan mythology
Ashanti mythology
Bushongo mythology
Bwiti
Dahomey mythology
Dinka mythology
Efik mythology
Egyptian mythology
Ibo mythology
Isoko mythology
Khoikhoi mythology
Lotuko mythology
Lugbara mythology
Pygmy mythology
Tumbuka mythology
Yoruba mythology
Zulu mythology
African religions in the New World
Kumina
Obeah
Santería (Lukumi)
Vodou
Candomblé
Macumba
Umbanda and Quimbanda
Xango
European religions
Anglo-Saxon mythology
Basque mythology
Druidry (Celtic Religion)
Finnish mythology
Germanic paganism
Norse mythology
Greek religion
Greek mythology
Mystery religions
Eleusinian Mysteries
Mithraism
Pythagoreanism
Roman religion
Roman mythology
Slavic mythology
Asian religions
Babylonian and Assyrian religion
Babylonian mythology
Chaldean mythology
Sumerian mythology
Bön (Indigenous Tibetan belief)
Chinese mythology
Shinto
Oomoto
Tengrism (Indigenous Mongol, Tartar & Kazakh belief)
Yezidis (Modified indigenous Kurdish belief)
Native American religions
Abenaki mythology
Aztec mythology
Blackfoot mythology
Chippewa mythology
Creek mythology
Crow mythology
Guarani mythology
Haida mythology
Ho-Chunk mythology
Huron mythology
Inuit mythology
Iroquois mythology
Kwakiutl mythology
Lakota mythology
Lenape mythology
Navaho mythology
Nootka mythology
Pawnee mythology
Salish mythology
Selk'nam religion
Seneca mythology
Tsimshian mythology
Ute mythology
Zuni mythology
Oceanic religions
Australian Aboriginal mythology
Balinese mythology
Maori mythology
Modekngei (Republic of Palau)
Nauruan indigenous religion
Polynesian mythology
[edit]
Neopagan or revival religions
Modern religions seeking to recreate indigenous, usually pre-Christian, beliefs and practices

Church of All Worlds
Dievturiba
Germanic Neopaganism also called Ásatrú or Odinism
Hellenic polytheism (modern revivalist forms)
Judeo-Paganism
Maausk
Neo-druidism
Summum
Taarausk
Wicca
Alexandrian Wicca
Dianic Wicca (Feminist Wicca)
Gardnerian Wicca
Faery Wicca
Feri Tradition
[edit]
Non-revealed religions
Philosophies not transmitted by a divine prophet

Carvaka
Confucianism
Deism
Fellowship of Reason
Spiritual Humanism
Mohism
Taoism
[edit]
Left-Hand Path religions
Faiths teaching that the ultimate goal is separating consciousness from the universe, rather than being absorbed by it

Dragon Rouge
Satanism
LaVeyan Satanism
Church of Satan
Order of Nine Angles
Setianism also spelled Sethianism
Temple of Set
The Storm
Quimbanda
[edit]
Syncretic religions
Faiths created from blending earlier religions or that consider all or some religions to be essentially the same

Arès Pilgrim Movement
Cao Dai
Falun Dafa (Falun Gong)
Huna
Konkokyo
Law of One
Manichaeism
Unitarian Universalism
Universal Life Church
Tenrikyo
Theosophy
Seicho-No-Ie
[edit]
Entheogen religions
Religions based around divinely inspiring substances

Ayahuasca-based beliefs
Church of the Universe (marijuana sacrament)
Peyotism
THC Ministry
[edit]
New religious movements
See List of new religious movements for a list based on other sources

See hereunder for religions founded since 1850 with small followings

Monotheistic NRMs

Direct Worship of the Actual God
Indigenous NRM's

Burkhanism
Cargo cults
Ghost Dance
Native American Church
African Diaspora / Latin American NRM's

Rastafari movement
Umbanda
Candomble
Kardecist Spiritism
Hindu-oriented NRM's

Sai Baba/Sathya Sai Organisation
Hare Krishna
Transcendental Meditation
Sant Mat
Swaminarayan
Vedanta Society
Osho/Rajneeshism
Meher Baba (actually a Zoroastrian)
Oneness University
Aum Shinrikyo (Aleph)
Eckankar
NRM's with Islamic Roots

Subud
Ahmadi
Dances of Universal Peace
Nation of Islam (Black Muslims)
Christian-oriented NRM's

Unification Church
Jesus People
Children of God
People's Temple
Pentecostalism
Holiness movement
Iglesia ni Cristo
Buddhist-oriented NRM's

Soka Gakkai
Won Buddhism
Hoa Hao
Friends of the Western Buddhist Order
Chinese-oriented NRM's

Way of Former Heaven sects, including
I-Kuan Tao ("Way of Unity"),
T'ung-shan She ("Society of Goodness"),
Tien-te Sheng-chiao ("Sacred Religion of Celestial Virtue"),
Daoyuan ("Sanctuary of the Tao"),
Tz'u-hui Tang ("Compassion Society").
Falun Gong ("Dharma Wheel Work," a qigong meditation group)
Japanese-oriented NRM's

Tenrikyo
Seicho no Ie
Johrei (Johrei Movement - Sekai Kyusei Kyo Izunome Kyodan)
Reiki
Oomoto
Soka Gakkai
Aum Shinrikyo (Aleph)
Korean-oriented NRM's

Chondogyo
Jeung San Do
Juche (The personality cult of North Korean leaders)
Unification Church
Vietnamese-oriented NRM's

Caodaism
Hoa Hao
Malaysian-Oriented NRM's

Sky Kingdom
Western Magical / Esoteric Groups

Kardecist Spiritism
Theosophy
Agni Yoga
Anthroposophy
Arcane School
Association for Research and Enlightenment
Church Universal and Triumphant
Golden Dawn
Gurdjieff Work
AMORC
Spiritualism
Eckankar
Thelema
Argenteum Astrum
Fraternitas Saturni
Ordo Templi Orientis
Typhonian Ordo Templi Orientis
Process Church of the Final Judgement
Order of the Solar Temple
White Supremacist Religions

Church of Jesus Christ Christian
World Church of the Creator (Creativity Movement)
Church of the American Knights of the Ku Klux Klan [1]
Black Supremacist Religions

Nuwaubianism
Alien-based religions

The Aetherius Society [2]
Raelism
Scientology
Church of Scientology
Free Zone
Urantia, Book of
Universe people
Other NRM's

Antoinism
Breatharianism (Air cult)
Brianism
Elan Vital
Faithists of Kosmon
Virus, The Church of
Tony Samara
[edit]
Parody or mock religions
Groups that poke fun at other religions or religion in general

Discordianism
Church of the SubGenius (The cult of Bob Dobbs)
Church of Jesus Christ Elvis
Fictional religions turned Parody
Bokononism
Jedi census movement
Flying Spaghetti Monster (Pastafarianism)
Invisible Pink Unicorn
Kibology
Landover Baptist Church
Church of Emacs
[edit]
Fictional religions
See List of fictional religions

[edit]
Forms of religion or alternative beliefs
Agnosticism
Animism
Atheism
Ditheism (Dualism)
Henotheism
Monolatrism
Humanism
Secular Humanism
Kathenotheism
Maltheism
Monism
Monotheism
Panentheism
Pantheism
Cosmotheism
Polytheism

[Fury]

Buddhism doesn't teach about gods. It's a personal choice about what you want to believe. Some do, some don't, some don't know. Buddha is not a god.

[Russian Crushin]

Buddhism doesn't teach about gods. It's a personal choice about what you want to believe. Some do, some don't, some don't know. Buddha is not a god.

Thats why i said god or deity

[PAC-BOY]

Thats why i said god or deity

Soooo, Where did God come from?