Why the abortion debate is never black and white...

[Boxingtech718v2]

How can you FORCE one person to do something they don't want to do when BOTH of you are responsible?

The law wouldn't force anybody to do anything. The woman can still have the kid by herself. It actually frees the sperm provider from being culpable if he doesn't want the child. Right now the only group being FORCED is the man to pay child support if the woman goes ahead with having the child. So you actually validated my argument by agreeing that both are responsible. You're done.

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

What is your educational background? Get yourself into a community college immediately and study history.
Do some self education and you will see that before the implementation of child support law and food stamps there were far less single family homes in the black community. Why? Because women knew that they needed a man in the house to provide for them. The Black community in the 1960's was far stronger before the implementation of all these social programs. Infact I would argue that was the "golden era" for the black community with most blacks feeling pride in their blackness, pride in their community, the promotion of the civil rights movement, etc. Back then going to school and getting good grades was cool because the white man didn't want us too. So don't presume to tell me anything about the black community because I know all about my history. Stick to Mexico because maybe that's the only thing you know something about ninita.

So let me get this straight, you think that life was better in the 1960's because there weren't any of laws that they have now? Your telling me to get an education?

I hate to break this to you but life in the 1960's were better as far as child rearing and family structure for many reasons, one of which was not the laws implemented AFTER the fact to protect single mothers.

See the way it works is, the problem comes, then you create a solution for it.

The reason things were better in the 1960's was because of the social structure of the family, the nucleus was still intact and that had more to do with the fact that economical roles were more clearly defined in America. Men worked, women stayed home in much greater numbers than they do now. It's not because of women's lib or anything like that, it's because economically as the decades passed it was needed in order to survive.

Most marriages need BOTH the man and woman working because of needs, not wants. There are plenty of women who want to stay at home but simply can't afford to.

I can tell you whatever I want about the black community because I have worked closely with inner city blacks and Latino's all my life, see I do **** unlike you. Getting a degree is nice, but nothing beats experience and seeing it first hand.

Comparing the 1960's to now on this topic is a nice try but a serious fail on your part. There are many circumstances as to why things have changed and it's not as simple as some changing of the law.

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

The law wouldn't force anybody to do anything. The woman can still have the kid by herself. It actually frees the sperm provider from being culpable if he doesn't want the child. Right now the only group being FORCED is the man to pay child support if the woman goes ahead with having the child. So you actually validated my argument by agreeing that both are responsible. You're done.

Yes because raising a child on your own is so easy and economically feasible.

How about you man the fuk up and take care of the child you help create instead of trying to find some loophole because you wanted her to do something she didn't want to do.

Don't want to pay for a child, keep your d.ick in your pants or wear a condom. Makes a little more sense don't you think?

[Boxingtech718v2]

My situation, we were together for years and had another child already. And continued our relationship until my daughter was 6 months old. Now my children are nearing 8 and 7. I have been on my own for over 6 years and I wouldn't change that fact, but I feel like he should grow the fu*k up.

I don't disagree with abstinence, I myself am abstinent and have been for nearly a year; because I won't just let any dude who wants to get in, in.

It's about standards.

I have issue with women who use abortion as a form of birth control. Believe me I do. I think anyone who would put their body through that simply because they were too lazy to use a condom, get the shot, whatever are just ridiculous.

I disagree with the women who look at child support as a means to get their hair did and go out to the club. It literally infuriates me.

At the same time, out of all of these situations, the only one who will truly suffer is the child. We don't have the luxury of picking our parents, but our parents have the luxury of picking their partners.

People need to step their standards up and stop fu*king with people they wouldn't want to possibly have a child with unprotected.

I never understood how someone could end up with a child from a one night stand, forget about babies, in this day an age, why aren't people more worried about STDs and AIDS? There is no excuse for this. We have all been educated when it comes to sexual health.

Well I just mention abstinence because when you tell people they have the choice to not have sex they make all type of excuses.

I agree that ultimately we have to pick better partners. Sadly as men we just want to shag he best looking women out there regardless of personality. Almost every man has this fatal character flaw.

Even more disgusting is parents, male or female that use child support to fund their own lives. They should be required to show line by line spending where the money is going every month. If the money is not being spent on the child then the amount should be reduced or eliminated altogether.

Spent on the child as in providing a home, food, clothes, daycare, gas expenses, etc. Not other frivolous expenses.

In the end we just have to be a little nicer to each other, more understanding, and at least try to have real equality.

[Boxingtech718v2]

Yes because raising a child on your own is so easy and economically feasible.

How about you man the fuk up and take care of the child you help create instead of trying to find some loophole because you wanted her to do something she didn't want to do.

Don't want to pay for a child, keep your d.ick in your pants or wear a condom. Makes a little more sense don't you think?

Woman doesn't want to raise a child by herself then abstain the same way the man can. Nice how you absolve the woman of all responsibility.
Keep my di.ck in my pants? Keep her vagina in hers lol! It takes two to tango didn't you hear fool?
How about you shut you ignorant mouth or educate yourself huh ninita? Mad because you can't refute my logic, it's okay read more and maybe you will have a leg to stand on.
Congratulations on your social work you make what 30k a year lol. Don't even come at me with that.

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

Woman doesn't want to raise a child by herself then abstain the same way the man can. Nice how you absolve the woman of all responsibility.
Keep my di.ck in my pants? Keep her vagina in hers lol! It takes two to tango didn't you hear fool?
How about you shut you ignorant mouth or educate yourself huh ninita? Mad because you can't refute my logic, it's okay read more and maybe you will have a leg to stand on.
Congratulations on your social work you make what 30k a year lol. Don't even come at me with that.

I understand your logic, it just makes no sense.

I also don't work as a social worker, it's something I do for the community I live in and whether or not I make 30k or 100k makes no difference.

So I see in this thread you give credence to an education (which is good but not the only thing important in a debate) and the amount of money one makes.

About sums it up, you lose now go and play.

[UglyPug]

Would you support legislation that enforced vasectomies or reversible sterilisation of men at the demand of a woman?

Men have it staggeringly easy in society in just about every field. This notion that somehow men are getting the shitty end of the stick is frankly utterly ridiculous.[/QUOTE]


Absolutely not. . . Just like I wouldn't support legislation that gave men the right to demand a female have her tubes tied, or permanently take away her ability to have kids in the future. That isn't analogous to a woman having the right an abortion, and a man not having a right to "choose" whether or not he wants to be a father.

Like I said, I'm speaking on behalf of the many men who have gotten females pregnant, WANTED to have the child, but the woman chose to have an abortion. The female doesn't even have to tell the male. . . HOWEVER, flip the script, and if the man wants the woman to have an abortion, and the woman wants to have the baby - he has to be a father (even if it's just a "financial" father). Since I don't believe a man should have the right to "MAKE" a woman either have an abortion, OR have the child, he should have the right to simply have nothing to do with the baby (financially as well).

OF COURSE I don't agree with a guy who isn't ready to man up, HOWEVER, I also don't agree with women who get abortions simply because they "made a mistake" and "aren't ready to be a mother." MY PERSONAL OPINION shouldn't matter, though; it's a fundamental right for a female, and we can't tell her what to do with her body.

THat's where I stand on the situation.

[Boxingtech718v2]

Would you support legislation that enforced vasectomies or reversible sterilisation of men at the demand of a woman?

Men have it staggeringly easy in society in just about every field. This notion that somehow men are getting the shitty end of the stick is frankly utterly ridiculous.

Absolutely not. . . Just like I wouldn't support legislation that gave men the right to demand a female have her tubes tied, or permanently take away her ability to have kids in the future. That isn't analogous to a woman having the right an abortion, and a man not having a right to "choose" whether or not he wants to be a father.

Like I said, I'm speaking on behalf of the many men who have gotten females pregnant, WANTED to have the child, but the woman chose to have an abortion. The female doesn't even have to tell the male. . . HOWEVER, flip the script, and if the man wants the woman to have an abortion, and the woman wants to have the baby - he has to be a father (even if it's just a "financial" father). Since I don't believe a man should have the right to "MAKE" a woman either have an abortion, OR have the child, he should have the right to simply have nothing to do with the baby (financially as well).

OF COURSE I don't agree with a guy who isn't ready to man up, HOWEVER, I also don't agree with women who get abortions simply because they "made a mistake" and "aren't ready to be a mother." MY PERSONAL OPINION shouldn't matter, though; it's a fundamental right for a female, and we can't tell her what to do with her body.

THat's where I stand on the situation.[/QUOTE]

I don't want to tell women what to do with their bodies I want them to stop trying to tell us what to do with our wallets. lol.

I'm glad to see some other people have their own minds.

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

Absolutely not. . . Just like I wouldn't support legislation that gave men the right to demand a female have her tubes tied, or permanently take away her ability to have kids in the future. That isn't analogous to a woman having the right an abortion, and a man not having a right to "choose" whether or not he wants to be a father.

Like I said, I'm speaking on behalf of the many men who have gotten females pregnant, WANTED to have the child, but the woman chose to have an abortion. The female doesn't even have to tell the male. . . HOWEVER, flip the script, and if the man wants the woman to have an abortion, and the woman wants to have the baby - he has to be a father (even if it's just a "financial" father). Since I don't believe a man should have the right to "MAKE" a woman either have an abortion, OR have the child, he should have the right to simply have nothing to do with the baby (financially as well).

OF COURSE I don't agree with a guy who isn't ready to man up, HOWEVER, I also don't agree with women who get abortions simply because they "made a mistake" and "aren't ready to be a mother." MY PERSONAL OPINION shouldn't matter, though; it's a fundamental right for a female, and we can't tell her what to do with her body.

THat's where I stand on the situation.

Exactly, I mean the underlying point in all of this is that "equality"is a ridiculous concept when dealing with pregnancy because it's left to the female to decide what happens in her body.

Just saying you want an abortion and she decides that's not what she wants doesn't absolve the male from being responsible for what he took part in.

I don't know how much clearer you can be on the subject. If it was different biologically, I would understand the logic but it's not and we need to deal in reality not fantasy.

[ßringer]

It's a woman's issue. Strap up or face the potential consequences. Period.

Yeah, I know - Condoms ****ing suck. Know what sucks worse? Getting a girl you don't even love pregnant and having to foot the bill for that child for the next 18 years.

So handle your goddamn business and get over it. But don't come to me b*tching about how your girl "tricked" you into being a father expecting my sympathy, because I'll just laugh at your ******ed, no self-control having, naive, undisciplined ass.