Tennis Fans why is Federer considered Greatest when Nadal always beats him??

[F l i c k e r]

Clay is Nadal's best surface, hes basically unbeatable on Clay. And a majority of their matches have been played on Clay.

Nadal just has a style which negates some of Federer's best assets and he has gained something of a mental edge over him in recent years.

Roger is still the GOAT because of his style of play and the amount of slams he's won.

Nadal's style is horrible to me.

^^^^^ This.

and yes, Nadal's style is horrible. Which is why Djokovic mops the floor with him.

[Chups]

Federer = end of his career

Nadal= prime

[BEDROOM BULLY]

I have no idea ts..

Nadal straight beat the prime out of federer even made him cry like a baby after a match

[Xercen]

Reasons why Federer is the goat atm.

1) Federer was in his prime from 2003-2008. He is now in his 30's with 2 kids and a wife. His reactions have slowed and his mentality wasn't as good as it was when he was at his prime. Nadal started beating federer on grass and HC since 2008. Federer was declining by then.

2) Nadal's style is always great vs federer. He is a lefty and plays balls to fed's backhand. He exploits federer's weaknesses and thus he has an advantage in that aspect as well as the fact that federer is from another generation and is thus older. Djokovic is now 7-0 vs nadal in the last 7 games. Even when he played a 5 setter vs murray and had 1 day less rest, he was still able to overcome nadal in the Aussie open 2012 because he has no weaknesses (forehand or back) and he has better movement and returning skills than nadal. Thus that's why djokovic can beat nadal at his own game (baseline rallies). I believe djokovic can be the GOAT if he gets enough grandslams under his belt.

3) In pete sampras's era, the surfaces were all relatively fast and it was like that for a decade or so. More recently, the surfaces have changed to be much slower and have high bounce which is very favorable to nadal's game. Unfortunately slow surfaces and high bounce means federer's game is much weaker and this has happened during federer's career which has impacted his game vs nadal. Federer is 4-0 on indoor surfaces vs nadal. Also string and racquet technology has gone on leaps and bounds and it has changed the game as we know it. Federer was caught up mid career with all these changes.

4) Federer has not only got the most number of grand slams (16) but he has amazing Quarter and semi final streaks in grandslams. Coupled with a huge no of weeks at number 1 as well as winning the world tour finals many times. Federer has basically got every accolade you need. H2h is very overrated. In this day and age, styles mean u can never have a winning record against everybody you play. Djokovic has recently been owning nadal 7-0. Even nadal has never had a 7-0 win streak vs federer yet djokovic is owning nadal mentally at his own game.

5) Federer at his peak had such an all round game that he reached the finals of every gs tournament for years. Unfortunately, nadal's game wasn't as good so he never met fed in grandslam hard court and wimby finals because he was knocked out often in the early rounds. The h2h is in nadal's favour with many of the losses coming from clay court losses. The irony is that if federer wasn't so good and lost early at the french open and other clay court tournies, then he wouldn't have had so many losses vs nadal and the h2h would actually be skewed in federer's favour. But right now, federer is past his prime (was past his prime since 2008) and thus now im certain nadal and djokovic will start taking wins off federer. But you can see how great federer is because he is 30 years old and he is still extending his q/f s/f record as well as beating nadal and djokovic on occassion, even when years past his prime!
Davydenko has a positive h2h vs nadal but does anybody believe davydenko is better than nadal based on that fact?


In short, h2h is overrated. Nadal fans used to talk about h2h constantly, until nadal started getting raped anally by the djoker. 7-0 so far and the streak will continue.
Djoker was raping nadal on clay also, so watch the Djoker have a good chance to get a non calender grandslam

Also, Federer is 30 years old now. He is an old man. His prime left him years ago. But it's a testament to his greatness that he still plays and reaches quarter and semi finals as well as beating nadal and djokovic and murray on occassion. Imagine a 30 year old boxer schooling 25 year old kids. lol

Americans know it's all about how many championships you've won. Federer has won 16 grandslams. It's the most out of anybody ever.

Nuff said.

[Dirk Diggler UK]

Reasons why Federer is the goat atm.

1) Federer was in his prime from 2003-2008. He is now in his 30's with 2 kids and a wife. His reactions have slowed and his mentality wasn't as good as it was when he was at his prime. Nadal started beating federer on grass and HC since 2008. Federer was declining by then.

2) Nadal's style is always great vs federer. He is a lefty and plays balls to fed's backhand. He exploits federer's weaknesses and thus he has an advantage in that aspect as well as the fact that federer is from another generation and is thus older. Djokovic is now 7-0 vs nadal in the last 7 games. Even when he played a 5 setter vs murray and had 1 day less rest, he was still able to overcome nadal in the Aussie open 2012 because he has no weaknesses (forehand or back) and he has better movement and returning skills than nadal. Thus that's why djokovic can beat nadal at his own game (baseline rallies). I believe djokovic can be the GOAT if he gets enough grandslams under his belt.

3) In pete sampras's era, the surfaces were all relatively fast and it was like that for a decade or so. More recently, the surfaces have changed to be much slower and have high bounce which is very favorable to nadal's game. Unfortunately slow surfaces and high bounce means federer's game is much weaker and this has happened during federer's career which has impacted his game vs nadal. Federer is 4-0 on indoor surfaces vs nadal.

4) Federer has not only got the most number of grand slams (16) but he has amazing Quarter and semi final streaks in grandslams. Coupled with a huge no of weeks at number 1 as well as winning the world tour finals many times. Federer has basically got every accolade you need. H2h is very overrated. In this day and age, styles mean u can never have a winning record against everybody you play. Djokovic has recently been owning nadal 7-0. Even nadal has never had a 7-0 win streak vs federer yet djokovic is owning nadal mentally at his own game.

5) Federer at his peak had such an all round game that he reached the finals of every gs tournament for years. Unfortunately, nadal's game wasn't as good so he never met fed in gs hard court and wimby finals because he was knocked out much in the early rounds. The h2h is in nadal's favour with many of the losses coming from clay court losses. The irony is that if federer wasn't so good and lost early at the french open, then he wouldn't have had so many losses vs nadal and the h2h would actually be skewed in federer's favour. But right now, federer is past his prime (was past his prime since 2008) and thus now im certain nadal and djokovic will start taking wins off federer. But you can see how great federer is because he is 30 years old and he is still extending his q/f s/f record as well as beating nadal and djokovic on occassion, even when years past his prime!
Davydenko has a positive h2h vs nadal but does anybody believe davydenko is better than nadal based on that fact?


In short, h2h is overrated. Nadal fans used to talk about h2h constantly, until nadal started getting raped anally by the djoker. 7-0 so far and the streak will continue.
Djoker was raping nadal on clay also, so watch the Djoker have a good chance to get a non calender grandslam

Also, Federer is 30 years old now. He is an old man. His prime left him years ago. But it's a testament to his greatness that he still plays and reaches quarter and semi finals.

Americans know it's all about how many championships you've won. Federer has won 16 grandslams. It's the most out of anybody ever.

Nuff said.

[cupocity303]

Pretty sure most of Nadal's grand slam wins against Federer have been on clay at Roland Garros.

It's not Federer's fault Nadal couldn't make it to the finals of the other grand slams that Federer won.

This^^^^

Now, Nadal has caught up to Federer because he did beat in him at Wimbledon and other Non-French majors in recent years, but in Federer's absolute peak, Federer would always make it to the finals of Nadal's favorite tourney, the French Open (and lose). But Nadal didn't do the same in Wimbledon and the U.S. Open, where Federer ruled for 5 years straight. Hypothetically, that could've been 10 additional beatings that Federer could've given young Nadal, but Rafa lost to other guys in the Semi's usually.

[cupocity303]

But I wouldn't start making excuses for Federer and attribute his losses to him declining. Nadal and Djokovic have stepped up their game to another level to get to him. Guys like Roddick couldn't do it, and Nadal and Djokovic have consistently been ranked #2 and #3 for years, slowly creeping up to Federer.

He lost plenty of matches because the other two were simply better at that moment. This isn't to discredit Roger but actually give him more credit. He didn't dominate in a era of bums, he had great rivals and he still could beat them and win a few more majors since he is relatively injury free and his movement doesn't put as much strain on his body as on others. Lets not discredit Djokovic and Nadal for taking over.

[Xercen]

But I wouldn't start making excuses for Federer and attribute his losses to him declining. Nadal and Djokovic have stepped up their game to another level to get to him. Guys like Roddick couldn't do it, and Nadal and Djokovic have consistently been ranked #2 and #3 for years, slowly creeping up to Federer.

He lost plenty of matches because the other two were simply better at that moment. This isn't to discredit Roger but actually give him more credit. He didn't dominate in a era of bums, he had great rivals and he still could beat them and win a few more majors since he is relatively injury free and his movement doesn't put as much strain on his body as on others. Lets not discredit Djokovic and Nadal for taking over.

Making excuses is not good but you must look at potential reasons for federer's downfall.
Of course, we have no clue as to how much this affects federer, but it's nice to know.

Main reasons for federer not doing as well as he did before.

1) The courts are way slower now with high bounce. Serve volley is pretty much dead even at wimbledon. The game as it exists right now is baseline rallies with shotmaking until u drop. As the years went by, federer's game has become less and less suited due to the slowing down and high bounce surfaces that exist in today's arenas. Federer has a game that suits all courts but against younger guys with better stamina, the aging years definately don't help when you have 2 amazingly fit guys (djoko and nadal) that are younger, fitter and hungrier. It's just quite amazing how well federer is still doing at 30 years old.

2) If nadal played in sampras's era when courts were much faster with low bounce, he would much more difficulty winning on that anything that isn't a clay court. On hard surfaces, Federer is 4-0 at indoor courts, but Nadal is 5-1 while outdoors. While the records even out to 5-5, it favors Nadal, since the Australian Open and U.S. Open are both held outdoors. The ball moves slightly quicker inside. which favors Federer. Outdoors, Nadal is better equipped to handle the slightly varying conditions.

Overall, you would have to say to yourself. Do you think the GOAT should be a guy who can baseline rally well on slower high bounce courts or somebody who can do everything well. Federer can do everything well. He has proved it in his career when the surfaces were fast and also when the surfaces slowed down. It's true that djokovic and Nadal have improved (but how much of that improvement is due to the slowing down of the surface in nadal's case) but federer has also declined. Therefore, it's very hard to make factual statements since it's very subjective as to how much nadal djokovic improved and how much federer declined and also you have to factor in the surface changes that make baseling rallies predominant.

But i believe federer is the GOAT because out of all the stats you can see, having the most GS titles should be the ultimate GOAT stat. But if you want to look at the other stats, federer really has no peer lol.

But let's not get ahead of ourselves. Atm, we have 4 amazing tennis players. Djoker, Nadal, Federer and Murray (upcoming).

When all four have retired and men's tennis enters the dark ages akin to heavyweight boxing, then we can really see who was the GOAT.

[cupocity303]

Making excuses is not good but you must look at potential reasons for federer's downfall.

The real potential reasons are that the opponents have caught up to him, and not just because he fell of, but because they stepped up.

After all: Federer did not just play himself all these years. If one is to say that he is past it, what's to stop another from saying that Nadal wasn't at his prime yet in the early years of Roger's dominance. That Nadal was still raw and that Djokovic was still Raw.

It swings both ways. Lets not make this more complicated then it really is. Everyone has the same advantages/disadvantages and Nadal/Djokovic seem to be more prone to injuries also. So if anyone is potentially not at his best, it's those two on any given day.

[cupocity303]

Overall, you would have to say to yourself. Do you think the GOAT should be a guy who can baseline rally well on slower high bounce courts or somebody who can do everything well. Federer can do everything well. He has proved it in his career when the surfaces were fast and also when the surfaces slowed down. It's true that djokovic and Nadal have improved (but how much of that improvement is due to the slowing down of the surface in nadal's case) but federer has also declined. Therefore, it's very hard to make factual statements since it's very subjective as to how much nadal djokovic improved and how much federer declined and also you have to factor in the surface changes that make baseling rallies predominant.

But i believe federer is the GOAT because out of all the stats you can see, having the most GS titles should be the ultimate GOAT stat. But if you want to look at the other stats, federer really has no peer lol.

I too believe that based on the stats, Federer is the GOAT. But I'm not giving it to him for losing to Nadal and Djokovic. All this stuff about courts and the humidity being wrong, and the wind blowing the wrong way takes the fun out of the game for me.

When commentators start talking about that, trying to predict the momentum shifts that's unfolding live, I just wanna punch the TV to shut them up. All this pseudo-intellectualism in Tennis doesn't interest me much. I can go for it when talking Boxing (did they wear the right size gloves, was it catchweight or was it this or that weight, etc,.) but not on this one.

I see Djokovic as the # 1 right now. Why? Because the ranking said so and because he won 3 majors in a row. Is he the GOAT? No, and he won't be the GOAT until he surpasses Federer. And if he does: He is the GOAT no matter how he stacks up in abilities VS Federer (serving, volleying, etc,.).

I like simplicity.