What's wrong with religion?

[Davros?]

They did not use Darwin's theory... It's a falsehood which is perpetuated by theists (most notably Christians who were the core support of Nazi Germany and Hitler).

It was racial, the term used was "racial hygiene". It was about xenophobic promotion of one's race, not about Darwinism. Alfred Ploetz came up with the term, Rassenhygiene. He was a German eugenicist. He was adopted into Nazi Germany's "expert advisory committee for population and racial policy".

Hitler was actually quite Christian and Christianity more than evolution or Darwin to promote his racial views. I have read Mein Kampf. He's quite clear that, "Whoever would dare to raise a profane hand against that highest image of God among His creatures would sin against the bountiful Creator of this marvel and would collaborate in the expulsion from Paradise".

I am not talking about the race side of things I was talking about the idea's of survival of the fittest as an excuse to kill disabled people as far as I knew it was well documented but I haven’t read up on it since school which was 11 years ago so my memory of it is very sketchy so you know more than me on it, one of the most interesting programs I have seen on the subject is Nazis a warning from history that’s very interesting, Hitler was a crap leader anyway he spent days dreaming about his new Berlin and actually loved England he said the best day of his life was the signing of the London naval agreement. If the war hadn’t happened they would have fallen apart in the end anyways.

[TheJoker]

I am not talking about the race side of things I was talking about the idea's of survival of the fittest as an excuse to kill disabled people as far as I knew it was well documented but I haven’t read up on it since school which was 11 years ago so my memory of it is very sketchy so you know more than me on it, one of the most interesting programs I have seen on the subject is Nazis a warning from history that’s very interesting, Hitler was a crap leader anyway he spent days dreaming about his new Berlin and actually loved England he said the best day of his life was the signing of the London naval agreement. If the war hadn’t happened they would have fallen apart in the end anyways.

No doubt Hitler was a bad leader. His influence over the military cost them more battles than won them. He was a good figurehead but his policies actually hindered his efforts more than helped. Operation Barbarossa obviously stands out as a horrible strategic decision.

[squealpiggy]

[squealpiggy]

I was talking about Turkey not the Ottoman Empire, Atatürk created a secular state and also a single race state (although many are still religious), I watched a program on it last night on BBC 4 was very interesting the Greece Turkey war looked brutal.

The Armenian Genocide occurred between 1915 and 1917. Kemel Ataturk did not become a major political figure in Turkey until 1919. The Armenian Genocide was not perpetrated on secular grounds and took place under the auspices of the Muslim Ottoman Empire.

You believe in a superior race, they are your "higher power"

You daft tit, I believe in no such thing! Mr "Caste Football" is pretending that it's me who goes for the "master race" crap when I am a staunch advocate of evolutionary science, evolutionary science which not only holds that all humans share a common ancestor but that all living things share a common ancestor!

You can't get less "superior race" belief than I have.

Oh Tunney you woeful liar.

In any case people use religion and non religion to there own good, after all the Nazis used Darwin’s theory’s as an excuse to kill disabled people.

Hitler was completely opposed to the notion of common descent, using the same "we didn't come from monkeys" strawman as "modern? Creationists. Hitler was rather keen on the concept of the Ubermensch, and believed in a form of special creation which separated the human races, in stark contrast to Darwin's actual theories (and personal beliefs).

I am not talking about the race side of things I was talking about the idea's of survival of the fittest as an excuse to kill disabled people as far as I knew it was well documented

It would be a gross misunderstanding of the term "survival of the fittest" to suggest that we go around killing people who are disabled. The definition of "fitness" as applied to human beings implies cooperation as much, if not moreso than physical strength.

[mathed]

My religious beliefs are to love others as you would like to be loved regardless of sex, race, religious beliefs, or acts of hate committed. I believe in forgiving people for what they have done and said to you regardless of how you feel you would be justified in getting revenge for their transactions. Human emotions and moral justifications are hard to overcome and this is precisely why religion should be so important, it provides a basis for maintaining peace and harmony for the sake of something greater than ourselves.

[squealpiggy]

Then why do you have such a hatred for Muslims?

How do you fit your own ****sexuality into your belief in evolution?

You could probably quite safely drop the "****sexual" line and it wouldn't detract from your posts in any way. Honestly, just because I don't hate jews and gays doesn't make me jewish or gay.

I don't hate muslims either, though I disapprove of their religion and its propensity to extremism as anybody who values freedom of speech and democracy should.

So what's this master race higher power thing you were lying about?

[hotshoes]

there is nothing wrong with religion. its fanatics that causes the problem

[alza1988]

Khan and Salita QandA religiosity fest
AMIR KHAN will make boxing history on December 5 in Newcastle when he defends his WBA light-welterweight crown against the New York-based Ukrainian Dmitriy Salita in boxing's first battle between a Muslim and a Jew.


Here they talk about their spirituality and how they keep their faith in a terrorism-blighted world.
Q What are the real basic principles of your beliefs?
AK: I am religious but I try to keep it private.
Religion is as important to me as it is to a lot of other people. By praying I feel spiritually stronger. When I pray before a bout, I know God will be with me and guide me through it. Religion gives me the discipline I need to succeed in a very tough sport.

DS: It is very important to work hard and make the most of what we have been given.
Every person is created in the image of God and every person has, by his efforts and talents, to make the world a better place through goodness and kindness.
Everyone is in a certain place in the world where they have the potential to do good.




Jews, non-Jews, God created everyone and we believe everything and everyone is his creation. So we have to work together as one society to make the world a better place.
Q What rites or ceremonies do you observe?
AK: One of the biggest ceremonies there is for Muslims is Ramadan.
I fought Breidis Prescott during our Holy Month and I lost the bout - my one and only defeat. I know some members of my community were not pleased with me boxing during Ramadan, which is a fast from sunrise to sunset.
I have learned to take Ramadan more seriously, not to box during that time and, really, that defeat was a blessing in disguise for me.

DS: I am orthodox Jewish and follow the way of the Chabad Lubavitch movement, based in New York.
It is an ultra-orthodox community which has followers all around the world.
I observe the Sabbath, which begins at sundown on Friday night and finishes at sunset on Saturday night. I pray three times a day and eat only kosher foods.






I stopped fighting on the Sabbath when I was 18, as I won the US Championships. My final match at that time was scheduled for the Saturday afternoon but I told them I was unable to compete. They changed the fight to after the Sabbath - and I won.
Q Is it possible for Jews and Muslims to reconcile their basic religious differences?
AK: What I love about boxing is that it brings together every culture, race and creed under the sun. What me and Salita are doing here not many people could do. We are both professional sportsmen, one a Muslim and one a Jew, but everyone will be together.
When before could you say that you are going to get the Muslims, the Jewish community and the British together in one place enjoying themselves on a night of world championship boxing?

DS: In terms of this fight, this is giving us a chance for people to come together. I have no problem, there is no beef.




Hopefully, fans from both sides will act respectfully towards each other and this event will make history.
Q What are your views on those extremists who spread terror in the name of religion?
AK: I am really against any extremist. Of course, everyone has points of view but The Koran does not say innocent people should be killed.
I really do feel that if you practise your religion seriously it should bring you closer to other religions through understanding. Following a religion makes you a cleaner person. Religion is about peace and love, working together.
I have never been to a mosque anywhere in the world and had people inside tell me that I must do this thing or that thing.





DS: According to Judaism and our bible, The Torah, everyone was created in the image of God and everyone has the right to live, to be happy and make the world a better place. In Judaism, we do that through peace and through love and by trying to spread goodness.
Q When you box,you merely look upon your opponent as just another fighter as opposed to being a Muslim or a Jew?
AK: It is hard to be friends before a bout but afterwards it is different. I would like to think I am friends with all of my opponents.
This is sport, you want to be the best by beating the best. Regardless of what religion my opponent is, my only thoughts are to go in the ring and take the guy out because I want to be a winner.
It is about competition, I hate losing, I love winning. I feel the British public are behind me and, who knows, that could even include some members of the Jewish community.
I think I am opening doors in different areas. It would be amazing for me to have a Jewish following.

DS: It makes no difference for me if it is Amir or anyone else in the sport.
I am just focused on the fight. It doesn't matter what Amir is. I grew up in the ghetto area of Brooklyn. As a young boy I have been around all kinds of people - black, white, Asian, Muslim, Arab, everything.
I think the fact we are coming together should be treated in a positive way. I have a lot of respect for Amir. He does a lot of charity work and is a good role model. A Jew and a Muslim are coming together in competition and, hopefully, my fans and his fans can come together and enjoy the moment in both peace and harmony.




In the ring, and I am sure Amir feels the same way, I am going to be very competitive and I plan to bring the title back home.
Q When you hear of horrors and atrocities committed by either creed around the world, what do you think?
AK: I always try to stay away from politics.
I am not going into the ring thinking this guy is Jewish and I want to beat him up because he is different.

No. I step into the ring just to step out of it at the end as a winner.





DS: Every human being from any race or nationality who sees others die should feel some sort of compassion. But this is boxing. World politics is for another time.
Q Before you enter the ring do you pray to your God. If so, what is your prayer?
AK: I pray before every fight. I have been doing it since the age of 12.
I pray in my hotel before I leave for the venue and also just before the first bell.
It just seems to give me an extra edge.
Prayer is a big part of my life. You will never see me fight and forget about prayers in the corner.
When I was an amateur, other boxers like Frankie Gavin and James DeGale would watch me praying in our room.
I know they used to think that the prayers helped me, because I would be the one walking away with a medal or best fighter award on the night.
After a fight I say a quiet prayer of thanks. I wait until I am back in my hotel room to say it, as then it is just me and God.

DS: I have been saying a prayer to myself in my own way since I started training all those years ago.
Before I train, before I run in the morning, I pray.
God is everywhere and boxing is a very personal thing for me. It is something I have given my life to.




I feel my personal and spiritual relationship with God was established through boxing. Personal prayer plays a very big role in my life.
Q How do you reconcile your religious beliefs against being involved in such a violent sport?
AK: I am proud to be a boxer. There is a referee in there to make sure rules are followed. Boxing is a recognised sport, not organised violence.
Religion, I am sure, will stay out of the ring when me and Salita fight and I am sure people will thank us for that.

DS: You have to understand where I come from. I originate from a non-religious background. I was not the son of a rabbi. I started boxing before I become religious.




The idea of Judaism is to use your talents to make the world a better place. Everything has the potential to be good and bad in life. You have to use it for the good.
Q What is the attitude of your religious leaders towards your sport?
AK: I would like to think they are pleased with how I am trying to bring together the entire community in Bolton through my gym in the town.
Every race, creed and colour come to my gym, where they are taught the basics of boxing and develop new friendships. They respect what I do.
Through my religion I have put as much as possible back into my local community.
It is coming out of my own pocket and, I must say, there are plenty of smiles on plenty of faces - including mine when the gym is full.
I go to schools of all denominations, as I want kids to follow my sport and not go the wrong way.
My gym reflects how multi-racial Bolton is. Kids from different areas come in and work as a team. I have never heard any bitterness in the gym. It is about gaining respect.
Recently we have produced three north-west champions and I am sure that one day we will produce a world champion.

DS: Jewish people have a very rich history in boxing.
Most Jews were immigrants and boxing was a way for them to make it to the top and go on to accomplish the American dream.
The religious people I am associated with have been to a few of my fights and I always have great support. They find it interesting. I am a product of their work, so they come and support me.

[street bully]

Noything wrong with religion, as long as you are not an extremist, and try to impose your beliefs on others by force, Matter of fact faith is a good thing, and brings the best out of people.

[street bully]

You could probably quite safely drop the "****sexual" line and it wouldn't detract from your posts in any way. Honestly, just because I don't hate jews and gays doesn't make me jewish or gay.

I don't hate muslims either, though I disapprove of their religion and its propensity to extremism as anybody who values freedom of speech and democracy should.

So what's this master race higher power thing you were lying about?

have you ever read the torrah squeel? You would be surprised at the stuff in there. Not much of a difference between the two books really.