Russia launches invasion of Ukraine - MASTER THREAD

[Kris Silver]

Problem is Ukraine have possibly the only leader in the world who has a bigger ego than putin.... and the bigger problem is Ukrainian citizens don't even have the option to vote him out which noone seems to care about... I will give him some credit for once zelensky gave some strong leadership at the start of the conflict and managed to gather a good amount of support but his time is over now and it's time to put the ego to one side, as I said to other people this isn't a fairy tale the strong will push around the weak.and Ukraine have to come to terms with the fact they won't be able to regain that lost territory, they can either accept that now or keep going for another couple of years and lose the whole next generation of Ukrainians and make a rebuild of their country even harder...

Do you think maybe no one really cares about it, because, there's a war on.

Bat has asked you to name a modern democracy that's held an election during a war and invasion. Did you name one? It's accepted it's not a rational time to hold an election due to clear foreign interference with their people. That you don't understand this, then refuse to accept its the reality, doesn't change the reality.

A few pages back you shared a link which itself had clear evidence there is still majority Ukrainian support for the Government and resisting the invasion of their country.

So even if they held and election, the incoming party would still continue the resistance to the terrorists.

You didn't challenge it since it was even your own link. You've conveniently now skipped over it and tried again to make out it's not the reality, invent that they want an election and it might stop the war. It's false fantasy even by your own information you shared.

You don't overrule the will of a population, Madison. Declaring you know what's best for them all, overruling their will.

[BattlingNelson]

- - I report what I read in the western press as reported to them by the powers on the ground. There are no winners here save the Military Industrial Complexes and politicians adding to their coffers.

There sure is losers. Ukraine will lose their identity and independence.

We already know Putin one of the richest men in the world, so how many Greek Islands does Zelenskyy own now?

Idk. Probably none.

Looking at today front page of NPR, neither Russia, Ukraine, any of their leaders or the rest of the world involved are in the news, good news to me because eventually there has to be some kind of settlement where each can save face and move on to a possible peace.

You cannot negotiate with Putin. He lies and breaks all agreements. You speak like Chamberlain.

[Vlad_]

It's a big band aid cause two years ago people were saying it was about to collapse... what the west can't handle is that their sanctions flopped

Sanctions didn’t flop. Sanctions are a long game.

Russia is a huge country with a sizeable population and many resources. They won’t just crash overnight. And they can maintain a war economy for several years. But life will become worse and worse for the average population.

[Prince Madison]

Sanctions didn’t flop. Sanctions are a long game.

Russia is a huge country with a sizeable population and many resources. They won’t just crash overnight. And they can maintain a war economy for several years. But life will become worse and worse for the average population.

Come on man... I'm sure russia would rather not have the sanctions but they have done nothing like what was advertised

[Prince Madison]

Folks tend to get a little hung up on the morality or legality of this war. Of course it's illegal and of course it's immoral - like virtually every war of aggression ever - the question is whether Russia was rational to consider Ukraine joining NATO to be a serious, indeed possibly critical threat to it's own mid to long term security.

How is Russia to know whether an invasion could come in 5 years or 10? Germany was no threat to Russia in 1933 but by 1941 Hitler had built an army which came within a hair of possibly destroying Russia forever. If the start lines of Barabarossa had been near Kharkiv instead of Brest-Litovsk then Moscow would have been taken in a coupla months at most. Personally I don't think that is the kind of threat Russia is most concerned about however. Just isn't the Western MO to go in for a guns blazing territorial invasion unless the oppositon is so weak that there's effectively no chance of meaningful resistance.

I think the main point was really to secure and protect Crimea and control of the Black Sea. Morally of course it's unjustifed but having taken the moral high ground won't help you much when enemy forces are building up right near the weakest and most fractious region of your country. It's a bit too late to start worrying about it once Ukraine already joined NATO isn't it?

Look at a map of Southern Russia, Eastern Ukraine and Western Kazakhstan - the North Caspian Area. What do you notice? That neck there is known as the Volgagrad gap. At it's narrowest it's only about 250 miles across. The territories to the South of it contain a huge amount of mineral wealth and also happen to be some of the regions in Russia which are probably most prone to violent rebellion or secessionist tendacies (with quiet suppoort from some parts of the US foreign policy establishment)

It's all very well for you to consider NATO to be a peaceful and wholely defensive alliance (a claim which can no longer be made since the 'humanitarian interventions' of the 90s, not to mention Iraq etc), but at it's helm is the single most deadly military superpower on earth, which also happens to be the world's most prolific military aggressor with a penchant for making up it's own rules on intenational conduct as it goes along. In short whilst you personally might consider that the US is no threat to Russia I strongly doubt Russian strategic planners see things the same way.

What folks generally don't realise that is that Russia was already on the back foot in the Causcasus, Caspian and Central Asian regions from the early 2000s onwards, particularly with the opening of the BTE pipeline which bypassed Russian territory and that the US and Europe were making steady progress gaining influence in the region. Now once again you might say this is all perfectly legitimate and 'just business' but the actual economic impact of the US and Europe peeling these regions away from Russia would be huge and could indeed bring Russia to it's knees and quite possibly even lead to a collpase of the federation and at the very least would likely lead to the seccession of the Russian South - the Caspian and North Causcasus regions.

Great Post ^

[Prince Madison]

Do you think maybe no one really cares about it, because, there's a war on.

Bat has asked you to name a modern democracy that's held an election during a war and invasion. Did you name one? It's accepted it's not a rational time to hold an election due to clear foreign interference with their people. That you don't understand this, then refuse to accept its the reality, doesn't change the reality.

A few pages back you shared a link which itself had clear evidence there is still majority Ukrainian support for the Government and resisting the invasion of their country.

So even if they held and election, the incoming party would still continue the resistance to the terrorists.

You didn't challenge it since it was even your own link. You've conveniently now skipped over it and tried again to make out it's not the reality, invent that they want an election and it might stop the war. It's false fantasy even by your own information you shared.

You don't overrule the will of a population, Madison. Declaring you know what's best for them all, overruling their will.

This isn't a proper war, it is a stalemate and nothing is happening now...I understand delaying it if it was in the first year of the conflict but not now.... or is the election going to interfere with all that amazing progress Ukraine has made in the last year and a half

[Prince Madison]

https://www.wsj.com/world/russia-dou...-help-fd8d18bc turns out America and Germany have been flogging ingredients to Russia to help them make explosives

[Batko10]

Russia obliterating Ukrainian Army. Glide Bombs Bring Ukrainian forces to their knees.

[Prince Madison]

There sure is losers. Ukraine will lose their identity and independence.


Idk. Probably none.



You cannot negotiate with Putin. He lies and breaks all agreements. You speak like Chamberlain.

What's Ukrainian identity? Being poor and corrupt? The country was a mess even before russia decided to put it on them

[Batko10]