Is America is turning to Socialism?

[Don Corleone]

please, by all means do.. you'll never find it, why?
because I never said it.
you must have me mixed up with someone else..
but anyway, I'll wait for you to find it.. this should be interesting. lulz

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...=254459&page=3

Post #23

You clearly say in your exact quotes "what they are doing has sprinkles of socalism in it but it is in no way socialism"

I argued that the control of private enterprise is contrary to capitalism and how they're slowly shifting away from capitalism and you didn't even agree with this. Even many pro-Obama supporters will admit that there are socialist principles in their current decisions of the heavily regulated economy and that they need to do what needs to be done and I would be totally fine with that answer. If certain understandable decisions need to be made to help the economy recover then that's what needs to be done. This is, however, not the stand you take because you outright deny almost ANY socialist related principles involved in their decisions. This means you're either being dishonest or you seriously have no idea what's going on in the economy.

[Sin City]

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...=254459&page=3

Post #23

You clearly say in your exact quotes "what they are doing has sprinkles of socalism in it but it is in no way socialism"

I argued that the control of private enterprise is contrary to capitalism and how they're slowly shifting away from capitalism and you didn't even agree with this. Even many pro-Obama supporters will admit that there are socialist principles in their current decisions of the heavily regulated economy and that they need to do what needs to be done and I would be totally fine with that answer. If certain understandable decisions need to be made to help the economy recover then that's what needs to be done. This is, however, not the stand you take because you outright deny almost ANY socialist related principles involved in their decisions. This means you're either being dishonest or you seriously have no idea what's going on in the economy.

I said the PLAN has sprinkles of socialism, not the country itself.
there you go again, mixing people's words and hearing what you want to!

we have socialist aspects in our government.. bafoons like Don C just fail to see them or ignore them. there is nothing wrong with a healthy balance of both like we have.

what does how our government functions have to do with whether or not Obama's plan has some socialist aspects?

[Don Corleone]

I said the PLAN has sprinkles of socialism, not the country itself.
there you go again, mixing people's words and hearing what you want to!

The government's "plan" affects the entire nation in case you didn't know. If Obama's decisions and policies reflect capitalism then the nation will obviously be influenced by this. If they reflect socialism then the nation will obviously influenced by this. etc. You make it seem as though the President's economic policies are independent of the economic state of the nation as a whole. His economic "plan" will obviously reflect the current economic system (capitalist, socialism etc.) of the nation.

So for the record, you believe that the Obama administration have only used "sprinkles" of socialism in their policies and that capitalist ideals aren't being abandoned at all? Yes or no?

[Sin City]

The government's "plan" affects the entire nation in case you didn't know. If Obama's decisions and policies reflect capitalism then the nation will obviously be influenced by this. If they reflect socialism then the nation will obviously influenced by this. etc. You make it seem as though the President's economic policies are independent of the economic state of the nation as a whole. His economic "plan" will obviously reflect the current economic system (capitalist, socialism etc.) of the nation.

So for the record, you believe that the Obama administration have only used "sprinkles" of socialism in their policies and that capitalist ideals aren't being abandoned at all? Yes or no?

I don't believe the capitalist ideals are being abandoned, no.

[Hawkins]

The bottom line, as it has been for many years, is that politicians have a limited power to do ANYTHING. The Federal Reserve ,or I should say the people who own the Federal Reserve, are the real authority.

We'll only be able to truly control our destiny when we take back the purse strings and restore it to the people in a manner of speaking. Until then we are at their mercy.

[Ta Khent]

With the new Obama administration's left leaning policies, some citizens say that the U.S. is slowly turning to socialist ideals in a time of economic crisis. With the abandonment of the free-market principles (even by the Bush Administration) and the billions of dollars of bailouts to banks and the auto industry, some say the shift away from capitalism is becoming slowly evident. Some nations have even warned the U.S. not to move too far left such as Vladamir Putin who reminded them of the negative turns that the former Soviet Union took.

Not only are pro-capitalists (citizens) concerned over the amount of regulation by the government but they're also concerned over the amount of control by the government over private enterprise (with GM being the recent one in the news). Do you agree or disagree that the U.S. is moving away from capitalism and turning to socialism? If you agree, do you think it's a positive or negative turn? If you disagree then how do you account for all the government regulation that is contrary to capitalist principles.

As evidenced by the current economic crisis, when you have deregulation, the financial markets will run-a-muk. Furthermore, we've never truly been a total capitalistic society, more like a hybrid of capitalism and socialism.

[Bendigo]

I certainly hope so.

[Don Corleone]

I don't believe the capitalist ideals are being abandoned, no.

Ideals of Capitalism:

1.Free (unregulated) market
2.Laizzez-Faire "leave to do (by itself)"
3.Privately owned enterprise
4.Privately owned properties (including property rights)
5.Individual rights
6.Minimal taxes
7.State is separated from economics or is given a limited role

Already, there are conflicting ideas with the points above and the current economic system (and decisions) of the Obama Administration. Once again, I'm not saying that some socialist ideals are bad if they fix the economy, I'm merely arguing that there are indeed socialist ideals in the economic decisions, something you won't even acknowledge.

The first one obviously is not valid since the current economy, in its state of crisis, is no longer a "free-market" so we can conclude that the first one is invalid in today's economic society. The second one is considered a "pure" capitalist ideal and perhaps isn't popular in today's economic mess but nonetheless, there is no "laissez-faire" principle in today's economy. The third one is being conflicted with since the government is slowly taking control of some key privately owned enterprises such as large banks and Home Loan mortgage corporations. The seventh one is also being targeted at since the government's role in the economy is one of the biggest it's ever been regardless if it's for good reason or not. So as you see, many capitalist ideals certainly are being abandoned in this recession. It may be for good reason or it may not be but what's true is there certainly are capitalist principles that are being overlooked.

[raabd]

Ideals of Capitalism:

1.Free (unregulated) market
2.Laizzez-Faire "leave to do (by itself)"
3.Privately owned enterprise
4.Privately owned properties (including property rights)
5.Individual rights
6.Minimal taxes
7.State is separated from economics or is given a limited role

Already, there are conflicting ideas with the points above and the current economic system (and decisions) of the Obama Administration. Once again, I'm not saying that some socialist ideals are bad if they fix the economy, I'm merely arguing that there are indeed socialist ideals in the economic decisions, something you won't even acknowledge.

The first one obviously is not valid since the current economy, in its state of crisis, is no longer a "free-market" so we can conclude that the first one is invalid in today's economic society. The second one is considered a "pure" capitalist ideal and perhaps isn't popular in today's economic mess but nonetheless, there is no "laissez-faire" principle in today's economy. The third one is being conflicted with since the government is slowly taking control of some key privately owned enterprises such as large banks and Home Loan mortgage corporations. The seventh one is also being targeted at since the government's role in the economy is one of the biggest it's ever been regardless if it's for good reason or not. So as you see, many capitalist ideals certainly are being abandoned in this recession. It may be for good reason or it may not be but what's true is there certainly are capitalist principles that are being overlooked.

When Adam Smith spoke about unregulated markets he said this would happen if there are a large amount of businesses that each provided a ****genous product (depending on whatever the industry may be) and that there is easy entry and exit for the average person. This is also known as free market/pure/perfect competition. The only problem is that here in america we don't have a large number of businesses in certain markets, rather only a certain number of large firms control any given market, oligopolies if you will. This already deviates from the free market point of view adam smith was speaking of. That is why we have to regulate these corporate giants otherwise they will conspire into greedy cartel's and will have ridiculous mark ups.

[ILLuminato]

The bottom line, as it has been for many years, is that politicians have a limited power to do ANYTHING. The Federal Reserve ,or I should say the people who own the Federal Reserve, are the real authority.

We'll only be able to truly control our destiny when we take back the purse strings and restore it to the people in a manner of speaking. Until then we are at their mercy.

We must fear the masses. I mean, the masses still believe Obama is doing a great job. When you have a guy like Tim Geithner as the secretary of treasury, you now we are headed for the ****hole. And Obama supports him. Geithner shouldn't even be allowed to live in the country, send him to Israel or something, **** tax dodger...yet he wants to limit YOUR pay...and that will just be the begininnign