JFK Assassination: Driver Shot him

[sparkman0811]

Bingo...

Tests done show that the body gets a shock to the nervous system and straightens out the spine. Thus causing the head to appear to go backwards. Again, if you look at the video, frame by frame, you will see the head does come forward from the impact very quickly. I think it's frame 313 to 314, I'm not sure it's been such a long time since I read up on these conspiracies.

Well, I hear what you are saying. However, it's important to note that you have the camera rotating, and maybe translating, in order to keep up with the car, which is also moving. Therefore, you have a system which is in motion, making things appear differently if one of those, car or camera, was completely static. Therefore motions are not absolute, but relative to each other, in relation to each.

Here are frames 313-315 supposedly highlighting that forward jerk you guys are talking about. However, it is important to observe the apparent motion of JFK, Jackie, and the car. Since, we can treat these three as a system of particles. Let's observe their motions, since they should act as a system in translation. Frame motions will be with respect to the previous frame.

Frame 312: Standard position, original frame of reference

Frame 313: Car moves Back, JFK moves forward(motion from previous shot to throat, Jackie moves back (camera thrust forward, thus creating backward illusion)

Frame 314: Car moves forward, JFK moves forward, Jackie moves forward (camera thrust back, creating illusion)

Frame 315: Car moves forward, JFK moves backward, Jackie moves forward(camera maintains position, stabilized to show true apparent motion)

Therefore, the idea that JFK gets thrust forward is false, and is an illusion due to rotation, and translation, of camera with respect to moving car. Frame 315 shows JFK being thrust back. The supposed forward thrust of Kennedy is an illusion, since camera jerks forward in 313 and since he had forward motion as result of earlier gun shot. Then, in frame 314, the camera jerks back, causing all three to appear to move forward. Therefore, you have a system which follows the following frame motion pattern: back, forward, forward. Except, JFK does not follow this pattern. His goes :forward, forward, back.

System(Car, Jackie): Back, forward, forward
JFK: Forward(from previous gun shot), forward, back

[sparkman0811]

Look at the trajectory of debris. Look the motion of JFK( head, arms, body) after he gets shots. They all are going to the left and back. Like I said, if you are shot, your body will be thrust in the direction the bullet is going toward. If I push you from behind, you are not going to move in a direction against the force, you will move in the direction of the force itself. Look at the debris which also follows this pattern, material is going to the left and back. This is basic system of particles analysis, momentum analysis. Basic dynamics. As far as ballistics, if you shoot a watermelon it's going to blow up, regardless.

I apologize if these images are graphic or disturbing. These images are shown in the name of justice.

[The Noose]

Well, I hear what you are saying. However, it's important to note that you have the camera rotating, and maybe translating, in order to keep up with the car, which is also moving. Therefore, you have a system which is in motion, making things appear differently if one of those, car or camera, was completely static. Therefore motions are not absolute, but relative to each other, in relation to each.

Here are frames 313-315 supposedly highlighting that forward jerk you guys are talking about. However, it is important to observe the apparent motion of JFK, Jackie, and the car. Since, we can treat these three as a system of particles. Let's observe their motions, since they should act as a system in translation. Frame motions will be with respect to the previous frame.

Frame 312: Standard position, original frame of reference

Frame 313: Car moves Back, JFK moves forward(motion from previous shot to throat, Jackie moves back (camera thrust forward, thus creating backward illusion)

Frame 314: Car moves forward, JFK moves forward, Jackie moves forward (camera thrust back, creating illusion)

Frame 315: Car moves forward, JFK moves backward, Jackie moves forward(camera maintains position, stabilized to show true apparent motion)

Therefore, the idea that JFK gets thrust forward is false, and is an illusion due to rotation, and translation, of camera with respect to moving car. Frame 315 shows JFK being thrust back. The supposed forward thrust of Kennedy is an illusion, since camera jerks forward in 313 and since he had forward motion as result of earlier gun shot. Then, in frame 314, the camera jerks back, causing all three to appear to move forward. Therefore, you have a system which follows the following frame motion pattern: back, forward, forward. Except, JFK does not follow this pattern. His goes :forward, forward, back.

System(Car, Jackie): Back, forward, forward
JFK: Forward(from previous gun shot), forward, back

I dont see how JFK is moving forward from the previous shot to the throat. He is still when the fatal shot hits him.
It is easier to see the jerk forward in relation to the camera and motion of the car in the real time video below.

Look at the trajectory of debris. Look the motion of JFK( head, arms, body) after he gets shots. They all are going to the left and back. Like I said, if you are shot, your body will be thrust in the direction the bullet is going toward. If I push you from behind, you are not going to move in a direction against the force, you will move in the direction of the force itself. Look at the debris which also follows this pattern, material is going to the left and back. This is basic system of particles analysis, momentum analysis. Basic dynamics. As far as ballistics, if you shoot a watermelon it's going to blow up, regardless.

I apologize if these images are graphic or disturbing. These images are shown in the name of justice.

The push analogy doesnt work: If i pushed you from behind, but my push somehow caused an explosion on the opposite side of you(your front), you would fall backwards into me. Plus a push will move an object fowward, whereas a bullet can enter an object without doing that.
The backward motion of JFK is from the exploding exit wound.

Plus, like i said above, i still see JFK jerk down and forward before lolling back with his arm raising. In the real time video the car doesnt seem to move back, its just the camera moving.
The bullet from what i understand came from behind and caught the right side of his head, which caused him to move to the left.

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

Well, I hear what you are saying. However, it's important to note that you have the camera rotating, and maybe translating, in order to keep up with the car, which is also moving. Therefore, you have a system which is in motion, making things appear differently if one of those, car or camera, was completely static. Therefore motions are not absolute, but relative to each other, in relation to each.

Here are frames 313-315 supposedly highlighting that forward jerk you guys are talking about. However, it is important to observe the apparent motion of JFK, Jackie, and the car. Since, we can treat these three as a system of particles. Let's observe their motions, since they should act as a system in translation. Frame motions will be with respect to the previous frame.

Frame 312: Standard position, original frame of reference

Frame 313: Car moves Back, JFK moves forward(motion from previous shot to throat, Jackie moves back (camera thrust forward, thus creating backward illusion)

Frame 314: Car moves forward, JFK moves forward, Jackie moves forward (camera thrust back, creating illusion)

Frame 315: Car moves forward, JFK moves backward, Jackie moves forward(camera maintains position, stabilized to show true apparent motion)

Therefore, the idea that JFK gets thrust forward is false, and is an illusion due to rotation, and translation, of camera with respect to moving car. Frame 315 shows JFK being thrust back. The supposed forward thrust of Kennedy is an illusion, since camera jerks forward in 313 and since he had forward motion as result of earlier gun shot. Then, in frame 314, the camera jerks back, causing all three to appear to move forward. Therefore, you have a system which follows the following frame motion pattern: back, forward, forward. Except, JFK does not follow this pattern. His goes :forward, forward, back.

System(Car, Jackie): Back, forward, forward
JFK: Forward(from previous gun shot), forward, back

Sorry but this doesn't hold up. Again, you cannot just throw out the laws of physics. This film has been studied by experts around the world and this explination of his head going forward as an illusion has never held up. His head CLEARLY moves forward from the fatal shot.

The shot to the throat happens OFF CAMERA, he is passing behind the sign that is in the way when he is shot. When he comes back into frame, he's holding his neck from the neck shot and the governor is reacting from being shot as well.

In the fatal shot, his head moves forward from the fatal shot, then back as the body is put into shock and you see the front right side of his head explode. That is an EXIT wound, which you conspiracy guys still can't explain.

He was shot by Lee Harvey Oswald from the 6th floor of the book depository building. Did he do it alone? No, I don't think so but that died with him.

Look at the trajectory of debris. Look the motion of JFK( head, arms, body) after he gets shots. They all are going to the left and back. Like I said, if you are shot, your body will be thrust in the direction the bullet is going toward. If I push you from behind, you are not going to move in a direction against the force, you will move in the direction of the force itself. Look at the debris which also follows this pattern, material is going to the left and back. This is basic system of particles analysis, momentum analysis. Basic dynamics. As far as ballistics, if you shoot a watermelon it's going to blow up, regardless.

I apologize if these images are graphic or disturbing. These images are shown in the name of justice.

A skull is not a watermelon, countless re-enactments have been done on live animals, humans skulls, ballistic gel and that is very consistent to what happens when a person is shot from behind.

[sparkman0811]

I dont see how JFK is moving forward from the previous shot to the throat. He is still when the fatal shot hits him.
It is easier to see the jerk forward in relation to the camera and motion of the car in the real time video below.



The push analogy doesnt work: If i pushed you from behind, but my push somehow caused an explosion on the opposite side of you(your front), you would fall backwards into me. Plus a push will move an object fowward, whereas a bullet can enter an object without doing that.
The backward motion of JFK is from the exploding exit wound.

Plus, like i said above, i still see JFK jerk down and forward before lolling back with his arm raising. In the real time video the car doesnt seem to move back, its just the camera moving.
The bullet from what i understand came from behind and caught the right side of his head, which caused him to move to the left.

Okay, you make some good points, with respect to film evidence. However, I will maintain my position. There are some things that just don't seem right about the whole situation, including autopsy pictures and the Zapruder film. Unfortunately, those involved died soon after, so we never got any insight as to why they did what they did or if they even did it. Also, I watched the movie JFK, I don't know how much this film is fact or fiction, but it raises questions. Apparently, the film talks about the military industrial complex and how JFK opposed Vietnam and was disbanding CIA or other agencies. These were seen as motives for assassination, since he was trying to make changes against military industrial complex. I must admit, I have to do much research into all of this, but these things are very interesting. I will just say that these things are worth looking into, since what happened to JFK is very sad and unfortunate. I don't believe we should exclude these things as possibilities. Power is a very strong motive.

[sparkman0811]

Sorry but this doesn't hold up. Again, you cannot just throw out the laws of physics. This film has been studied by experts around the world and this explination of his head going forward as an illusion has never held up. His head CLEARLY moves forward from the fatal shot.

The shot to the throat happens OFF CAMERA, he is passing behind the sign that is in the way when he is shot. When he comes back into frame, he's holding his neck from the neck shot and the governor is reacting from being shot as well.

In the fatal shot, his head moves forward from the fatal shot, then back as the body is put into shock and you see the front right side of his head explode. That is an EXIT wound, which you conspiracy guys still can't explain.

He was shot by Lee Harvey Oswald from the 6th floor of the book depository building. Did he do it alone? No, I don't think so but that died with him.



A skull is not a watermelon, countless re-enactments have been done on live animals, humans skulls, ballistic gel and that is very consistent to what happens when a person is shot from behind.

Okay, good points. I will maintain my position of there being more than one person involved in assassination, though. You seem to have done some research into this event. Mine is only starting.

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

Okay, good points. I will maintain my position of there being more than one person involved in assassination, though. You seem to have done some research into this event. Mine is only starting.

Couple of things, you mentioned the Oliver Stone movie. Oliver Stone did a disservice to finding the truth as he made so much stuff up, even ardent conspiracy theorists laughed that off. It was more Hollywood than real investigation.

Second, it's good that you are doing your research, just keep in mind Occam's Razor, the simplest explanation is usually the right one.

Let's say the CIA wanted to assassinate the president, why in the world would they do it in front of the entire world on video? I mean think about that...

Wouldn't it be easier to inject him with some virus or disease? Or have Air Force 1 crash, or some other "accident"?

Sorry man, but this conspiracy is so far out there it makes no logical sense. People say it's impossible for a single man to kill a president of the U.S yet John Wilkes Booth did it and John Hinckely attempted it all by himself.

It's really not that difficult if you take the times into account. Those presidents weren't guarded like the president is today because the country and world was much more innocent.

[MindBat]

Words couldn't possibly describe what Jackie went through during and after that event. Maybe two: Helpless and Hopeless.

[Jim Jeffries]

Worth noting that Oswald attempted to assassinate radical right winger and retired general Edwin Walker less than 8 months earlier using the same Carcano rifle he used to kill Kennedy. Oswald missed Walker from only 30m away, hitting the window frame next to him.

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

Worth noting that Oswald attempted to assassinate radical right winger and retired general Edwin Walker less than 8 months earlier using the same Carcano rifle he used to kill Kennedy. Oswald missed Walker from only 30m away, hitting the window frame next to him.

This is true, and also was in Mexico City a few months earlier at the Soviet Embassy. There's more to this, but some of the conspiracy theories are just plain out there.