How To Get To Heaven When You Die

[Spray_resistant]

You are completely wrong and I can prove it. Go stick your hand in the fire on the stove.

I could come up with many more examples of the opposite, like how attractive someone thinks someone else is, how good some food tastes, the quality of a movie and so on and so on.

Even your own example proves nothing because you can not know what anyone experiences from their individual perception when touching a hot stove but can perhaps relate to a very similar experience but it will not be exactly the same.

[creekrat77]

That's funny because when I say "deviance" I'm referring to traits that deviate from the norm. So if everybody has those traits they aren't deviant, are they?

Wow, I picked up all this knowledge from reading books that aren't the bible, who knew?



You already implied as much. If you don't want people to have that impression then stop saying it!



Only among drinkers of the kool aid. Nobody outside of the cult thinks that eternal punishment is a fair response for temporal crimes. Nobody outside of religious cults think that sexual urges are evil. Nobody outside of religious cults thinks that failure to love and worship somebody is grounds for punishment.

That's why I keep telling you to take a step back. If I told you that Wargleblargle loves you and wants you to be safe but if you don't love Wargleblargle back he'll cut your balls off you would dismiss it as absurd cruelty. And if I then told you that this was only just and fair you would think I was crackers!

The whole deal with Christianity is not a loving exchange, it's the sort of bargain offered by a mob boss. Declare you fealty to god and god will protect you from himself.



That's not what it says in the bible.



That's an interesting take on the world. Without wanting to present a false dichotomy you have one group who has genuine useful knowledge of the world gleaned from logic, science, and the testing of hypotheses, and on the other you have a group that slavishly devotes itself to a hodgepodge of bronze age legends that were codified by ass-covering Romans purely because that's literally the first explanation they were ever given about how the world works.

If you were going to label one of those groups "simple minded" which one would it be?



Congratulations! That's the first true thing you've said ever! It's just a shame that you're misusing a beautifully complex philosophical and psychological conundrum as an excuse for believing in silly nonsense.

So how do you explain the existence of Jesus Christ and the fact that he fulfilled the 353 Prophecies proving his divinity? Historical records prove Jesus's life on earth. Not only that but in all accounts ever given he was never deemed to be emotionally troubled or showing any sign of mental disorder. How do you explain Jesus Christ's existence?

[xfrodobagginsx]

I could come up with many more examples of the opposite, like how attractive someone thinks someone else is, how good some food tastes, the quality of a movie and so on and so on.

Even your own example proves nothing because you can not know what anyone experiences from their individual perception when touching a hot stove but can perhaps relate to a very similar experience but it will not be exactly the same.

I can come up with many more examples of the same, but I really only need to come up with one to prove you wrong. I can know whether other's experiences are good or bad, horrifying or bliss by their reactions, and feed back. You won't go stick your hand in the fire because perception is not meaningless. You perceive that if you stick your hand in the fire, you will experience pain and damage to your hand, therefore, you won't do it.

[xfrodobagginsx]

I could come up with many more examples of the opposite, like how attractive someone thinks someone else is, how good some food tastes, the quality of a movie and so on and so on.

Even your own example proves nothing because you can not know what anyone experiences from their individual perception when touching a hot stove but can perhaps relate to a very similar experience but it will not be exactly the same.

So how do you explain the existence of Jesus Christ and the fact that he fulfilled the 353 Prophecies proving his divinity? Historical records prove Jesus's life on earth. Not only that but in all accounts ever given he was never deemed to be emotionally troubled or showing any sign of mental disorder. How do you explain Jesus Christ's existence?

Good points

[Spray_resistant]

I can come up with many more examples of the same, but I really only need to come up with one to prove you wrong. I can know whether other's experiences are good or bad, horrifying or bliss by their reactions, and feed back. You won't go stick your hand in the fire because perception is not meaningless. You perceive that if you stick your hand in the fire, you will experience pain and damage to your hand, therefore, you won't do it.

No example you come up with qualifies as an experience of another. Any example of an experience you relate to is just another thought story your mind is fabricating, as is any memory of a negative experience you had like putting your hand on a hot stove for example but just like imagining what it was like for you or someone else you are not perceiving that experience at the moment but rather experiencing a thought of what that would be like for someone else or what it was like for you.

These are not substitutes for experiences of these events nor are they the same because the contents of your thoughts are all fictional even if your thoughts do exist in some sense and you cannot know what it is like to experience an event in the body of someone else no matter how similar the experience thus cannot with 100% honesty assign a good/bad meaning to anyone else experience but can only place a good/bad label on your thoughts of their experience.

[squealpiggy]

So how do you explain the existence of Jesus Christ and the fact that he fulfilled the 353 Prophecies proving his divinity? Historical records prove Jesus's life on earth. Not only that but in all accounts ever given he was never deemed to be emotionally troubled or showing any sign of mental disorder. How do you explain Jesus Christ's existence?

1. Historical records of Jesus are nonexistent. There is no clear evidence he was even a real person. The evidence that is usually claimed to support the existence of Jesus actually supports the existence of christians. But we already know that christians exist!

2. The fulfilled prophecies are a weak argument. Somebody who was familiar with prophecies made in the Old Testament wrote their Jesus story with a view to making him fulfill prophecies. Which is why there are so many contradictory accounts! That's why he was an immaculate conception, while also descending from David via his earth-dad Joseph.

Any evidence that requires an a-priori belief in the bible is not evidence. Prophecies made in the bible and fulfilled in the bible are not proof of anything, unless you also consider that prophecies fulfilled by Harry Potter and Voldermort make JK Rowling's books a true story.

[Spray_resistant]

1. Historical records of Jesus are nonexistent. There is no clear evidence he was even a real person. The evidence that is usually claimed to support the existence of Jesus actually supports the existence of christians. But we already know that christians exist!

2. The fulfilled prophecies are a weak argument. Somebody who was familiar with prophecies made in the Old Testament wrote their Jesus story with a view to making him fulfill prophecies. Which is why there are so many contradictory accounts! That's why he was an immaculate conception, while also descending from David via his earth-dad Joseph.

Any evidence that requires an a-priori belief in the bible is not evidence. Prophecies made in the bible and fulfilled in the bible are not proof of anything, unless you also consider that prophecies fulfilled by Harry Potter and Voldermort make JK Rowling's books a true story.

You gave me an idea 1. Church of Harry Potter 2. ??????? 3. profit

[xfrodobagginsx]

No example you come up with qualifies as an experience of another. Any example of an experience you relate to is just another thought story your mind is fabricating, as is any memory of a negative experience you had like putting your hand on a hot stove for example but just like imagining what it was like for you or someone else you are not perceiving that experience at the moment but rather experiencing a thought of what that would be like for someone else or what it was like for you.

These are not substitutes for experiences of these events nor are they the same because the contents of your thoughts are all fictional even if your thoughts do exist in some sense and you cannot know what it is like to experience an event in the body of someone else no matter how similar the experience thus cannot with 100% honesty assign a good/bad meaning to anyone else experience but can only place a good/bad label on your thoughts of their experience.

So then you are going to stick your hand in the fire on the stove?

[xfrodobagginsx]

1. Historical records of Jesus are nonexistent. There is no clear evidence he was even a real person. The evidence that is usually claimed to support the existence of Jesus actually supports the existence of christians. But we already know that christians exist!

False. There are many records of Jesus Christ that mention Jesus Christ and what happened to Him, not just His followers. You obviously refuse to actually read them although I've posted them for you several times.

2. The fulfilled prophecies are a weak argument. Somebody who was familiar with prophecies made in the Old Testament wrote their Jesus story with a view to making him fulfill prophecies. Which is why there are so many contradictory accounts! That's why he was an immaculate conception, while also descending from David via his earth-dad Joseph.

The writers of the New Testament could not have gotten away with that since there were thousands of witnesses to many of these events. Had they fabricated these facts, then there would have been writings from historians refuting these claims. Although Jesus had many enemies, no one refuted His miracles or the things and places He did and went to.

Any evidence that requires an a-priori belief in the bible is not evidence. Prophecies made in the bible and fulfilled in the bible are not proof of anything, unless you also consider that prophecies fulfilled by Harry Potter and Voldermort make JK Rowling's books a true story.

It doesn't require a prior belief in the Bible. It requires the knowledge that the Biblical writings existed hundreds of years before His birth, like 1,500 years. Harry Potter doesn't have that.

My responses are in bold above

[Spray_resistant]

So then you are going to stick your hand in the fire on the stove?

No but it is besides the point, when someone is having a tough time do you tell them "I know how you feel"?

If so you are the first person ever to know how someone else feels.

Going back to how this relates to the Bible and Christian belief, you are going on faith alone based on the experience of reading a book and deciding for whatever reason that this is true. Someone else might read it and need more evidence that this is true, that person may read a different text or other life philosophy and decide that is much more sensible.

There is no way to really know unless you find out and we all are going to find out eventually what is what when our bodies die but we are not coming back to tell, no one ever has.