about pbf: a few things before nov 4

**deuce_drop** · 10-31-2006, 09:07 PM

Originally posted by wmute

basically i have to say this before the fight, because some of it (point 1 and 4) would cause me accusations of bandwagoning if mayw. loses. The rest I am writing because i had the thoughts in mind for a while and I am curious about others' opinions.

all of the following come from someone who believes, based on what he's seen. that mayweather is a rare fighter, a special fighter, and if he keeps on winning (the fights that I want to see, no more bruseles thank you) I will consider him an all time great.

1. mayweather physical prime is almost over (if not already over): there is no way his speed can stay with him through his 30s.
The sad thing is the fights he took in between castillo2 and judah, from the age of 26 to 29 ****** (I would grant him corley, if that was in the middle of say hatton and cotto, but its not)
I am not going to say he ducked anyone or anyone ducked him, but the fact stays: in 03-04-05 mayw. fought useless fights. This is not new to anyone, I just find it depressing that he basically spent his best years fighting nobodies.

2. had he stayed around 135-140 instead of venturing at 147-154 I could have seen him pulling a Bernard Hopkins and ruling until close to 40, but being old and smaller I dont think so. His immense skills and boxing IQ can only take him so far. If he is still dominant for the next 3-4 years, I would be very impressed (a lightweight archie moore?)

3. I think his heart is going to prove many doubters wrong. as obsessed as he is with being the best, he would probably "die" in the ring to support this (or he just needs someone in his corner reminding him that winning is going to bring him more ca$h in the future LOL)

4. So far, I dont like the change in his fight style which began when roger started training him.
I think the mayweather which we saw defending the title at 130 was quite close to boxing perfection.
too defensive? only 3 opponents out of 9 made the distance in those title fights (and mind we are not talking about bruseles type of fighters).
In the long run, when less speed is available I might be proven wrong, I'll wait and see.

5. the fact that the majority of this board expects him to dominate 147, tells you what kind of expectations his past performances have generated. I read some posters saying he SHOULD fight winky wright or jermain taylor, otherwise he is "protected" or "unproven". that's insane and remind me of when people were scandalized by roy jones not fighting lewis or klitschko.

i think baldy has the heart, chin, adn pressure to push floyd in this fight, but i'm expecting floyd to outclass him with boxing skills and win, but anything can happen, i wouldn't mind seeing baldy win i always like underdogs unless they're totall sacks of ****.

but to the whole Mayweather being untested blah blah, Ray Robinson went 95-0 before he finally lost a fight. although he fought more often and fought some better and some worse opposition, he still had that string of undefeated fights and people always gave him his credit.

if Mayweather can do something as spectacular even a third of that he can be considered great, only thing is Mayweather needs to be pushed in some fights they can't be all easy or it's all a set up so to speak.

all Floyd has to do is fight the fights that WE THE FANS want to see and he won't have any naysayers other than the true haters.

**-EX-** · 10-31-2006, 11:36 PM

I respect what you say, and I agree about #5. Floyd would be crazy if he tried to go to 160, and fight a Jermaine Taylor or Winky Wright. I would've liked Floyd to stay at 140, but personally I think he should go no higher than 147.

**deliveryman** · 11-01-2006, 12:28 AM

Originally posted by wmute

basically i have to say this before the fight, because some of it (point 1 and 4) would cause me accusations of bandwagoning if mayw. loses. The rest I am writing because i had the thoughts in mind for a while and I am curious about others' opinions.

all of the following come from someone who believes, based on what he's seen. that mayweather is a rare fighter, a special fighter, and if he keeps on winning (the fights that I want to see, no more bruseles thank you) I will consider him an all time great.

1. mayweather physical prime is almost over (if not already over): there is no way his speed can stay with him through his 30s.
The sad thing is the fights he took in between castillo2 and judah, from the age of 26 to 29 ****** (I would grant him corley, if that was in the middle of say hatton and cotto, but its not)
I am not going to say he ducked anyone or anyone ducked him, but the fact stays: in 03-04-05 mayw. fought useless fights. This is not new to anyone, I just find it depressing that he basically spent his best years fighting nobodies.

2. had he stayed around 135-140 instead of venturing at 147-154 I could have seen him pulling a Bernard Hopkins and ruling until close to 40, but being old and smaller I dont think so. His immense skills and boxing IQ can only take him so far. If he is still dominant for the next 3-4 years, I would be very impressed (a lightweight archie moore?)

3. I think his heart is going to prove many doubters wrong. as obsessed as he is with being the best, he would probably "die" in the ring to support this (or he just needs someone in his corner reminding him that winning is going to bring him more ca$h in the future LOL)

4. So far, I dont like the change in his fight style which began when roger started training him.
I think the mayweather which we saw defending the title at 130 was quite close to boxing perfection.
too defensive? only 3 opponents out of 9 made the distance in those title fights (and mind we are not talking about bruseles type of fighters).
In the long run, when less speed is available I might be proven wrong, I'll wait and see.

5. the fact that the majority of this board expects him to dominate 147, tells you what kind of expectations his past performances have generated. I read some posters saying he SHOULD fight winky wright or jermain taylor, otherwise he is "protected" or "unproven". that's insane and remind me of when people were scandalized by roy jones not fighting lewis or klitschko.

I think the fact that Floyd got more knockouts while he was at 130, was simply because he was a relatively big 130lb'er with very good power. You mentioned that Floyd knocked out 6 of his 9 opponents, though if he fought then with the style he fights with now, there's little doubt in my mind he would of knocked out 9 out of 9, due to his new found aggression in the past few years.

As far being in his physical prime:

Honestly, I think Floyd is just hitting his stride now. He's only 29 years old, and has rarely been hit with a big punch. I think his prime will last until he is about 33-34 years old, until you start to see a noticable diminish in his speed and overall terms of athletic qualities. It's ludacris to suggest that because he is noticably slower than he was at 130, means he is losing steam physically. It's just a matter of physics, as he goes up in weight, he is going to get a little bit slower due to having more weight to carry. It's all about relativity: Floyd is still one of the fastest (if not the fastest) 147'ers (compared to other Welters) in the division, and even if he moved up to 154, or 160, he would still have a dominant speed advantage over the other people in the division.

Remember the less you get hit, the longer you will last. Look at other defensive specialist such as Winky Wright or Benard Hopkins, they're both pretty long in the tooth (in boxing years) and yet they've never been better.

**eazy_mas** · 11-01-2006, 05:59 AM

I think the shoulder roll is really good defense.

just checkout James Toney he is HW and still he rarely gets stunted by shots.

Mayweather went through many wieght classess because he is confdent in his boxing skills.

look at other fighters he fought at 135 and 140 like Castillo, Corrales and many others have where force to move to other wieght class as well as there the power becomes more but the opponent power as well have become more too.

**AllEyesOpen** · 11-01-2006, 10:18 AM

Originally posted by wmute

basically i have to say this before the fight, because some of it (point 1 and 4) would cause me accusations of bandwagoning if mayw. loses. The rest I am writing because i had the thoughts in mind for a while and I am curious about others' opinions.

all of the following come from someone who believes, based on what he's seen. that mayweather is a rare fighter, a special fighter, and if he keeps on winning (the fights that I want to see, no more bruseles thank you) I will consider him an all time great.

1. mayweather physical prime is almost over (if not already over): there is no way his speed can stay with him through his 30s.
The sad thing is the fights he took in between castillo2 and judah, from the age of 26 to 29 ****** (I would grant him corley, if that was in the middle of say hatton and cotto, but its not)
I am not going to say he ducked anyone or anyone ducked him, but the fact stays: in 03-04-05 mayw. fought useless fights. This is not new to anyone, I just find it depressing that he basically spent his best years fighting nobodies.

2. had he stayed around 135-140 instead of venturing at 147-154 I could have seen him pulling a Bernard Hopkins and ruling until close to 40, but being old and smaller I dont think so. His immense skills and boxing IQ can only take him so far. If he is still dominant for the next 3-4 years, I would be very impressed (a lightweight archie moore?)

3. I think his heart is going to prove many doubters wrong. as obsessed as he is with being the best, he would probably "die" in the ring to support this (or he just needs someone in his corner reminding him that winning is going to bring him more ca$h in the future LOL)

4. So far, I dont like the change in his fight style which began when roger started training him.
I think the mayweather which we saw defending the title at 130 was quite close to boxing perfection.
too defensive? only 3 opponents out of 9 made the distance in those title fights (and mind we are not talking about bruseles type of fighters).
In the long run, when less speed is available I might be proven wrong, I'll wait and see.

5. the fact that the majority of this board expects him to dominate 147, tells you what kind of expectations his past performances have generated. I read some posters saying he SHOULD fight winky wright or jermain taylor, otherwise he is "protected" or "unproven". that's insane and remind me of when people were scandalized by roy jones not fighting lewis or klitschko.

I don't see how he couldn't dominate 147 considering he's beaten(or about to beat) the 2 guys who are considered the best WW(Judah & Baldomir), I honestly think that on skill alone he could hold his own up to 154 but that would already be thin ice. I'd agree that he has to fight better opposition, & that fighting at 160 would probably be Mayweather's downfall, aside from that I don't agree with much else, still a good argument tho

Originally posted by deliveryman

I think the fact that Floyd got more knockouts while he was at 130, was simply because he was a relatively big 130lb'er with very good power. You mentioned that Floyd knocked out 6 of his 9 opponents, though if he fought then with the style he fights with now, there's little doubt in my mind he would of knocked out 9 out of 9, due to his new found aggression in the past few years.

As far being in his physical prime:

Honestly, I think Floyd is just hitting his stride now. He's only 29 years old, and has rarely been hit with a big punch. I think his prime will last until he is about 33-34 years old, until you start to see a noticable diminish in his speed and overall terms of athletic qualities. It's ludacris to suggest that because he is noticably slower than he was at 130, means he is losing steam physically. It's just a matter of physics, as he goes up in weight, he is going to get a little bit slower due to having more weight to carry. It's all about relativity: Floyd is still one of the fastest (if not the fastest) 147'ers (compared to other Welters) in the division, and even if he moved up to 154, or 160, he would still have a dominant speed advantage over the other people in the division.

Remember the less you get hit, the longer you will last. Look at other defensive specialist such as Winky Wright or Benard Hopkins, they're both pretty long in the tooth (in boxing years) and yet they've never been better.

Great post, I see PBF fighting strong into his mid-30's( & beyond based simply on skill alone like B-Hop), even if his speed gradually diminishes he'd still be very fast.

**Parody** · 11-01-2006, 10:44 AM

Originally posted by deuce_drop

i think baldy has the heart, chin, adn pressure to push floyd in this fight, but i'm expecting floyd to outclass him with boxing skills and win, but anything can happen, i wouldn't mind seeing baldy win i always like underdogs unless they're totall sacks of ****.

but to the whole Mayweather being untested blah blah, Ray Robinson went 95-0 before he finally lost a fight. although he fought more often and fought some better and some worse opposition, he still had that string of undefeated fights and people always gave him his credit.

if Mayweather can do something as spectacular even a third of that he can be considered great, only thing is Mayweather needs to be pushed in some fights they can't be all easy or it's all a set up so to speak.

all Floyd has to do is fight the fights that WE THE FANS want to see and he won't have any naysayers other than the true haters.

Ray Robinson went 40-0 until he lost to Jake La Motta

about pbf: a few things before nov 4