Evander Holyfield’s Age Is Irrelevant

[Kid Achilles]

I reread your post just now and realize that you were correct in what you said and I misinterpreted you. How many times he won the title is completely irrelvent to the fact that he needs to quit boxing ASAP.

[K-DOGG]

Sorry. I'm never clear in my writing. I meant that when he gets in the ring in 2006 it's irrelevant that he ever was the champ. He's not the same fighter. He's not going to be the champ again.

Good point and too true.

[Crazy Dude]

“When your younger you can make more mistakes and still recover, when you are older you make less mistakes because you don’t have the energy to waste. I used to run everyday, now I run every other day. I used to spar everyday now again I spar every other day. Now at this age I have to give my body more time to rest” Holyfield stated.

Say what you want about the current HW champions, I'll bet they can spar every day.

[K-DOGG]

Out of curiosity, here's a question to the readers of this thread: was Roy Jones ever THE heavyweight champion of the world?

In all seriousness, this is a very good question.

Nunn and Toney both, more or less, unified the divison. Nunn beat Tate and Kalambay (who never lost his WBA strap; but was stripped), who had won their portions of the splintered title right after Ray Leonard beat Hagler.....and he also beat Barkley, though Duran had first. So, Nunn and Duran were the two best middleweights at one time, before Duran moved up to challenge Leonard for his Super-Middleweight belt.....leaving Julian Jackson to beat Herol Graham for the vacant title. Still, at the time, Nunn was more of a champion than Jackson.....and Nunn lost to Toney.

Now, here's the quandry, because Toney, who had beaten Nunn and further solidified his hold on the division by beating McCallum...who was the "new" WBA Champion after Kalambay was stripped; and then stripped himself when he signed to fight Toney...go figure.....moved up to challenge Barkley and vacated his title.

Does the IBF belt, at that time, have any more significance than the WBC or WBA? Think about that.

When Roy Jones beat Bernard Hopkins for the vacant IBF belt, Gerald McClellan knocked out Julian Jackson for the WBC strap the same month, and Reggie Johnson had been the WBA titlist for more than a year. While I love Reggie Johnson, he's got to be considered the odd man out because he had lost to Toney and held his belt while Toney held his. So, we've got Jones and McClellan holding belts at the same time. What a damn shame those two never met.

There's more political two-stepping at Super-Middle and Light-Heavy as you well know, Kid; but I'll leave this alone for now and allow you to comment...ro anyone else who wants to dig into this mire.


In my opinion, because of the heritages of the three belts, Roy Jones Jr. did indeed have more claim to the middleweight title than either McClellan or Johnson...and then John David Jackson.

[K-DOGG]

Super-Middle:

James Toney beat Iran Barkley, who had beaten Darren Van Horn for the IBF strap, which he'd won from Lindell Holmes who had beaten Frank Tate for the vacant title.

The WBC belt had been ownd by Leonard until he abdicated; and that belt was won by Mauro Galvano, who lost it to Nigel Benn, who held it when Jones Jr. beat Toney for the IBF strap.

The WBA belt is the one with the longest line, actually uninterrupted from the division's conception in 1987. In 1993 when Toney was the IBF strap-holder and Benn held the WBC, Michael Nunn was the WBA title-holder.

So, we've got Toney, Benn, and Nunn at 168. Since Toney had beaten Nunn and both had beaten Barkley, logic would conclude that Toney was the superior between the two. So, we've got Toney and Benn at the top of the heap in '93 and Nunn holding the most continuous title; but since the division had never been unified, that's pretty irrelevant....especially since Nunn lost his belt to Steve Little, who in turn lost to Frankie Liles in 94.

Jones completely outclasses Toney in November of 1994, which means in 1995, Jones, Benn, and Liles were the men at 168.

Who was "more champ"? Well, you'll just have to look at the competition of each to form that opinion, though Jones is the more popular choice, primarily because he had more visibility.

[realheavyhands]

holyfield will suprised alot of you vs oquendo .. and dont discredit oquendo he beat chris bryd and was robbed ,and was killing tua before tua cought him in the 9th..

[K-DOGG]

holyfield will suprised alot of you vs oquendo .. and dont discredit oquendo he beat chris bryd and was robbed ,and was killing tua before tua cought him in the 9th..

Holyfield won't surprise me against Oquendo. I've already said Fres was too timid to take him out; and his style is more favorable to Holyfield.

[KTerceira]

Holyfield won't surprise me against Oquendo. I've already said Fres was too timid to take him out; and his style is more favorable to Holyfield.

Timeline is

1990 Evander beat Buster Douglas for wbc,wba,ibf and lost to Bowe in 1992

1993 beat Bowe for WBA and IBf lost them to Moorer

1996 Beat Tyson for WBA lost to Lewis

2001 Beat Ruiz for vacant wBA title

These don't include his Cruiser titles

Let's give the guy his props...

I do believe he gives Olag and Sergei fits. Valuev is a freak who could hurt him and depending on which Wlad shows (with or without a chin) who knows.

[K-DOGG]

Timeline is

1990 Evander beat Buster Douglas for wbc,wba,ibf and lost to Bowe in 1992

1993 beat Bowe for WBA and IBf lost them to Moorer

1996 Beat Tyson for WBA lost to Lewis

2001 Beat Ruiz for vacant wBA title

These don't include his Cruiser titles

Let's give the guy his props...

I do believe he gives Olag and Sergei fits. Valuev is a freak who could hurt him and depending on which Wlad shows (with or without a chin) who knows.

I'm not saying he wasn't a premiere fighter of the 90's; but he wasn't a 4-Time "World Champ". Foreman beat Moorer, Briggs beat Foreman...or got the decision, and then lost to Lewis who beat Holyfield (twice), lost to Rahman, regained it and retired.

Holyfield was a great fighter. I just don't believe in recognizeing Alphabelts.