Question For Boxing Fans...

[+= El Jefe=+]

You can pretty much argue anyone was not a great fighter if you try hard enough. I was thinking about this the other day, no matter who it is theres always excuse that can fabricated to take away greatness. My question is this, what fighters can you not in anyway question their greatness? Are there any? Or a there always holes for criticism in any fighter? One guy I've never heard people doubt is Sugar Ray Robinson...**waiting for a Robinson assault**

SRR is soo over rated all he fought was white bumbs, his best win was against Lamotta, he is sooo over rated lolz lolage on you thruth you are such a *****do lolz







jk SRR is the best P4P of all time

[phallus]

Henry Armstrong..


Robinson, Ali, Duran, Leonard, Hagler, Armstrong - these are the CREAM!

and harry greb - nobody can argue with his record 300 fights with maybe a dozen losses

[Rockin']

Ezzard Charles, Charles Burley, Battling Nelson, Roy Jones to name a few.

Rockin'

[Truth]

Ezzard Charles, Charles Burley, Battling Nelson, Roy Jones to name a few.

Rockin'

Roy Jones? Damn that should be controversial. **waits for someone to disagree with Rockin'**. By the Rockin', I agree with you I think Jones is a great fighter.

[borikua]

Piggu, what do you think about people saying Hopkins just faught bums for a decade? I'm a big Hop fan, hear that one all the time...

Here's a good article about that...


Why Bernard Hopkins Did Not Make My Top Twenty Middleweights Of All Time

01.10.06 - By Jim Amato:

Bernard Hopkins is the best middleweight of his era. It would be senseless to argue that point. He will more then likely be a first ballot Hall Of Famer when that time comes. He dominated the division for years. Even with his long reign and his signature win over Felix Trinidad, I always felt he was a bit over rated. In fact, I was more impressed with Bernard's win over Antonio Tarver than in any middleweight bout he ever had. It told me that Bernard should have moved up to light heavyweight long ago. He looked strong and carried the weight well. I think he may have hurt himself career wise staying at middleweight and fighting inferior opponents.

Bernard lost his first pro fight, which was at light heavyweight. He then began to work his way down to middleweight. On the way up, he defeated some decent fighters, like Percy Harris, Cleveland's Ralph Moncrief and Dennis Milton. Bernard challenged Roy Jones Jr. in 1993 for the vacant middleweight title and lost a decision to at the time, a superior middleweight.

In 1994, he drew with Segundo Mercado in a bout for the title Jones vacated. In a rematch Hopkins stopped Mercado to win the title he would hold for years. During those years, though, who did he really beat?

In his fourth defense, he beat a pretty good boxer in John David Jackson. In his next bout, he stopped tough Glencoffe Johnson, a future lightheavyweight champion. He also stopped former title holder Simon Brown. Leading up to the Tito Trinidad bout, Hopkins would post defenses against Robert Allen ( twice ), Antwon Nichols ( twice ), Syd Vanderpool and Keith Holmes.

Hopkins exposed Trinidad as later Winky Wright would. Nevertheless, Hopkins after toiling for years, had finally gained super star status. Still, he really did not cash in on it right away. Four defenses followed against lesser then stellar foes that led to a big fight against the smaller Oscar De La Hoya. As gifted as Oscar is, he started his career at 130 pounds. The bigger man beat the smaller man. A good win on paper for Bernard, though.

One more defense in 2005 led to his back to back losses to Jermain Taylor. Each decision was extremely close. Then he moved up and surprised Antonio Tarver.

A while ago, I was asked to rate the top 20 middleweights of all time for an International Boxing Research Organization poll. I did not have Bernard on that list and that was before the losses to Taylor. Why?

Well, Bernard may have been a victim of his time. If you look at his defenses you have Steve Frank, Joe Lipsey, Bo James, Andrew Council, Robert Allen on three occasions, Echols twice, Syd Vanderpool and Carl Daniels. Yes, he defeated Keith Holmes and William Joppy, who both had at one time had held a piece of the title. Still, neither one will be remembered as a great champion. Then there was his defense against Morrade Hakker.

Segundo Mercado, Simon Brown, John David Jackson and Glen Johnson were all decent boxers but Brown was in the twilight of his career. What I'm trying to say here is that Bernard reigned over a very weak division. In his two key defenses, he beat an over rated Trinidad and a smaller De La Hoya.

Bernard was a sound technical fighter but he was not a big hitter although Joe Lipsey may argue that point. Hopkins was crafty, durable and most cases utterly boring. Even both of his setbacks to Taylor were snoozers.

I think Bernard could have held his own against just about any middleweight in history but I believe there are several, more then twenty that could have beat him.

[RAESAAD]

He lost clearly to Harry Simon. Sure, he beat two names, but they were a blown-up lightweight and a blown-up welterweight, both way past their best too.

Taylor is pretty raw, but grinding out a draw with Taylor might be his best achievement.

It was not so clearly.......It was initially announced a draw and then the crowd went crazy and they came back and announced it a MD for Simon.........the fight was in South Africa.....go figure Simon is Nambian.He did clearly get beaten by Vasquez though........He beat Taylor IMO so that is a big acheivement and he is virtually unbeatable right now and for the past few years against the guys he is fighting.........

[dino]

You can pretty much argue anyone was not a great fighter if you try hard enough. I was thinking about this the other day, no matter who it is theres always excuse that can fabricated to take away greatness. My question is this, what fighters can you not in anyway question their greatness? Are there any? Or a there always holes for criticism in any fighter? One guy I've never heard people doubt is Sugar Ray Robinson...**waiting for a Robinson assault**

Muhammad Ali.. Roberto Duran.. Sugar Ray Leonard.. Marvin Hagler..

ali got alot of gift decisions..duran got alot of gift decsins (barkley fight)..leonard yes..hagler never fought in real middleweights other then mugabi

[GEOFFHAYES]

It was not so clearly.......It was initially announced a draw and then the crowd went crazy and they came back and announced it a MD for Simon.........the fight was in South Africa.....go figure Simon is Nambian.He did clearly get beaten by Vasquez though........He beat Taylor IMO so that is a big acheivement and he is virtually unbeatable right now and for the past few years against the guys he is fighting.........

I've seen the fight and it was clear-cut Simon won.

[RAESAAD]

I've seen the fight and it was clear-cut Simon won.

I will take your word for it.......I have not seen the fight but read many things about it........I still think Wink is and will be remembered as a great fighter........or should be in my book.

[GEOFFHAYES]

It was close, but you just couldn't sneak Wright a draw.