Comments Thread For: Arum: If Joe Smith & Beterbiev Win, Sets Up A Huge Fight That'd Sell Out MSG Easy

[Patsfan bri]

Smith- big puncher
Beterbiev - Monster puncher.

Smith - +average Chin.
Beterbiev - Granite chin.

Smith- big guy.
Beterbiev - Huge Guy.

It’s a mismatch if you ask me.
Respect Mr. Arum trying do his thing and sell a fight. But come on now....

I respectfully disagree. Smith fought from RD 2 on with a broken jaw against Barrera and never even seem dazed in the fight, while I have seen beterbiev rocked a little so to say Joe’s chin is average is wrong. I think joe can win a war against beterbiev. If the fight happens people on this board will see.

[Combat Talk Radio]

I see your point and agree that storylines and characters are the only way to sell or spin mismatches unless it’s a KO artist which never goes out of style.

Beterbiev vs. Gvozdyk barely sold. You're talking two undefeated killers, but again, neither are marketable and nobody cares.

I remember when I posted my thread - I was the ONLY one even on here talking about it.

https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/s...d.php?t=827613

And ESPN later confirmed what I said:

https://www.boxingscene.com/beterbie...n-espn--143563

Even Crawford pulls better numbers (paraphrased quote from the article)

Also, overhyped and underwhelming fights leave a bitter taste in people’s mouths and pockets when they’re being taxed to watch it on PPV... Floyd-Pac is the biggest example of this.

But we need to understand the reason for that bitter taste.

It wasn't the trash talk. There was less of it than Mayweather/De La Hoya or Mayweather/Mosley. Just Manny saying "God will deliver Floyd unto me", Roach saying "Manny's going to knock him out in the seventh, we've been preparing for this for YEARS! Should be no excuses afterwards", and Arum saying "I was Floyd's promoter for 10 and a half years, I've seen slippage, he won't be able to handle Manny's speed"

What really happened, is that Bob Arum, Manny Pacquiao and Freddie Roach did a MASTERFUL job convincing people that Manny was the only one talented enough to beat Mayweather, given he was referred to multiple times by the media as the "Greatest Offensive Fighter".

But when the fight started, they watched Manny shell up for 10 rounds. When he has NEVER done that against any other fighter, ever. They saw Floyd, literally right in front of Manny, and Manny doing nothing. They saw Floyd connecting punches with Manny not doing his usual 100 punch flurries.

Sequences like this:



Were more about Manny simply not showing up and not doing what he was expected to do to stop Floyd from doing what he's always done.

So the Pacquiao/Arum/Roach pre-fight hype was strong, but the performance on the night of the fight is what disappointed people. Freddie Roach even admitted to this - on video.


But that's why styles make fights.



It's also why, if Spence does face Crawford or Porter, I truly believe people are going to be disappointed with the fight, because they're likely to see Crawford get taken the distance and not perform anywhere close to the fight with Brook.

[Superbee]

Beterbiev's skills are a lot better than he seems to get credit for on here.

People have been saying that ever since the Cloud fight... 6 years ago ! What he did to Gvozdyk was a Boxing 101 Class oblitarating the 2nd guy in the Division at that moment (Yes I ranked Bivol lower than Gvozdyk then)... Beterbiev is a highly skilled Fighter in his own Bully style... Great Footwork, great jab faints to throw is right hand and amazing power at close range from both hands... He will of course get hit more than a Dancing Queen like Bivol but history shows the outcome is always the same...

[_Rexy_]

People have been saying that ever since the Cloud fight... 6 years ago ! What he did to Gvozdyk was a Boxing 101 Class oblitarating the 2nd guy in the Division at that moment (Yes I ranked Bivol lower than Gvozdyk then)... Beterbiev is a highly skilled Fighter in his own Bully style... Great Footwork, great jab faints to throw is right hand and amazing power at close range from both hands... He will of course get hit more than a Dancing Queen like Bivol but history shows the outcome is always the same...

And after the Gvozdyk fight the site got overloaded with Canelo fans saying he was a “one dementia so come forward zombie with his chin in the air who would get massacred by Canelo”

Not sure what people are watching

[shza]

Beterbiev vs. Gvozdyk barely sold. You're talking two undefeated killers, but again, neither are marketable and nobody cares.

I remember when I posted my thread - I was the ONLY one even on here talking about it.

https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/s...d.php?t=827613

And ESPN later confirmed what I said:

https://www.boxingscene.com/beterbie...n-espn--143563

Even Crawford pulls better numbers (paraphrased quote from the article)




But we need to understand the reason for that bitter taste.

It wasn't the trash talk. There was less of it than Mayweather/De La Hoya or Mayweather/Mosley. Just Manny saying "God will deliver Floyd unto me", Roach saying "Manny's going to knock him out in the seventh, we've been preparing for this for YEARS! Should be no excuses afterwards", and Arum saying "I was Floyd's promoter for 10 and a half years, I've seen slippage, he won't be able to handle Manny's speed"

What really happened, is that Bob Arum, Manny Pacquiao and Freddie Roach did a MASTERFUL job convincing people that Manny was the only one talented enough to beat Mayweather, given he was referred to multiple times by the media as the "Greatest Offensive Fighter".

But when the fight started, they watched Manny shell up for 10 rounds. When he has NEVER done that against any other fighter, ever. They saw Floyd, literally right in front of Manny, and Manny doing nothing. They saw Floyd connecting punches with Manny not doing his usual 100 punch flurries.

Sequences like this:



Were more about Manny simply not showing up and not doing what he was expected to do to stop Floyd from doing what he's always done.

So the Pacquiao/Arum/Roach pre-fight hype was strong, but the performance on the night of the fight is what disappointed people. Freddie Roach even admitted to this - on video.


But that's why styles make fights.



It's also why, if Spence does face Crawford or Porter, I truly believe people are going to be disappointed with the fight, because they're likely to see Crawford get taken the distance and not perform anywhere close to the fight with Brook.

As for Beterbiev v. Gvozdyk: well that’s just pathetic that nobody was on here talking about that fight, which I rate as a modern classic and the kind of fight that surely had anybody flicking channels on the edge of their seats... but nobody knew it was on.

Therein lies the mother****ing problem... The real wars that could make lifelong fans out of casuals aren’t on regular TV because they aren’t “marketable” storyline-wise... If wars were marketed as wars, people would tune in because two great athletes going life and death in a competitive fight is a thrilling human experience regardless of who’s involved.

Case in point: UFC forces the best to fight the best and undercard wars between unknown fighters are all over the sports talk shows because people eat that **** up... Like the recent fight between the Chinese female boxer and the Eastern European lady... Nobody knew who they were but the ACTION made them a name for themselves. For example, if ESPN were to really market Berchelt v. Valdez as a BLOODBATH, people would watch. However, my guess is that clueless Arum’s only going to market it to the “Mexican crowd.”

As for MayPac: I think the hype was based mostly off name recognition and the idiotic “good v. evil” angle that a lot of ppl still cling to (Manny man of Jesus v. greedy Floyd, etc.). Floyd fought a cautious Floyd fight only purists appreciate and Manny wasn’t aggressive enough as you pointed out. But Floyd made it a stick and move UD because that was his style and generally speaking, casual fans don’t find that entertaining. Maidana was Floyd’s most entertaining fight at welter because he actually did what I suppose people thought Manny would do.... Forced a finesse fighter into a war.

As for Spence and Crawford: once again, I don’t think casual fans know much about either guy... They’ve just been hearing people hype this matchup as the fight of the century for years now and will expect nothing less than a breathtaking competition.

Given how GOOD both of them are and how much bad blood there is between them, I fail to see how it could disappoint. Neither of them is the pot-shotting type... Errol presses and circles, Bud stands his ground, counters aggressively and runs TO exchanges. Both can and would mix it up on the inside. I’ll hold my L if it’s a boring match but I bet they give people their money’s worth.

[Combat Talk Radio]

As for Beterbiev v. Gvozdyk: well that’s just pathetic that nobody was on here talking about that fight, which I rate as a modern classic and the kind of fight that surely had anybody flicking channels on the edge of their seats... but nobody knew it was on.

Therein lies the mother****ing problem... The real wars that could make lifelong fans out of casuals aren’t on regular TV because they aren’t “marketable” storyline-wise... If wars were marketed as wars, people would tune in because two great athletes going life and death in a competitive fight is a thrilling human experience regardless of who’s involved.

Case in point: UFC forces the best to fight the best and undercard wars between unknown fighters are all over the sports talk shows because people eat that **** up... Like the recent fight between the Chinese female boxer and the Eastern European lady... Nobody knew who they were but the ACTION made them a name for themselves. For example, if ESPN were to really market Berchelt v. Valdez as a BLOODBATH, people would watch. However, my guess is that clueless Arum’s only going to market it to the “Mexican crowd.”

As for MayPac: I think the hype was based mostly off name recognition and the idiotic “good v. evil” angle that a lot of ppl still cling to (Manny man of Jesus v. greedy Floyd, etc.). Floyd fought a cautious Floyd fight only purists appreciate and Manny wasn’t aggressive enough as you pointed out. But Floyd made it a stick and move UD because that was his style and generally speaking, casual fans don’t find that entertaining. Maidana was Floyd’s most entertaining fight at welter because he actually did what I suppose people thought Manny would do.... Forced a finesse fighter into a war.

As for Spence and Crawford: once again, I don’t think casual fans know much about either guy... They’ve just been hearing people hype this matchup as the fight of the century for years now and will expect nothing less than a breathtaking competition.

Given how GOOD both of them are and how much bad blood there is between them, I fail to see how it could disappoint. Neither of them is the pot-shotting type... Errol presses and circles, Bud stands his ground, counters aggressively and runs TO exchanges. Both can and would mix it up on the inside. I’ll hold my L if it’s a boring match but I bet they give people their money’s worth.

One point:

You said "UFC forces the best to fight the best "

One of UFC's highest drawing fights?

prime Conor McGregor vs. washed up gatekeeper Cowboy Cerrone.

Why was that the highest drawing?

Because they're both characters who the fans know and the fight is marketable.

Cerrone is or was no way "the best" opponent for Conor. Every time Conor fought his "best" he took an L (Nate Diaz, Khabib, Poirier).

But look at dudes like Ben Askren, who is well known to the casual group mostly because of his personality. Or Derrick Lewis for his antics and post-fight interviews. They're characters. They sell tickets.

Amanda Nunes, on the other hand, arguably the best female fighter in UFC, couldn't draw anywhere near what Paige VanZant, a C-level fighter with a ton of heart, could draw. Why? Paige is a character. Cyborg is a character. Rousey was a character.

So what did UFC do?

You say they always have the best fight the best, but the truth is, that's only when it suits them, which is usually an undercard. Remember guys like Sage Northcutt getting fight after fight? CM Punk making over a million to take an embarrassing L in two fights?

Nah...Dana's just as guilty. He knows like all promoters know.

It's why Vince McMahon in his Royal Rumble the other night had a 48-year old Edge win it with help from a 40-something year old Rey Mysterio, a 40-something year old Jeff Hardy, a 40-something year old Carlito and a 40-something year old Christian, undercarded by a 50+ year old Goldberg spearing the hell out of the champion, who had to beat a 40+ year old Lesnar for it...and a who-knows-how-old Ric Flair had to be brought back because his daughter can't draw money on her own.

All promoters do it, and all for the same reason. If you don't have a marketable character, you're not going to draw money, and if you don't draw money you won't be featured.

[shza]

One point:

You said "UFC forces the best to fight the best "

One of UFC's highest drawing fights?

prime Conor McGregor vs. washed up gatekeeper Cowboy Cerrone.

Why was that the highest drawing?

Because they're both characters who the fans know and the fight is marketable.

Cerrone is or was no way "the best" opponent for Conor. Every time Conor fought his "best" he took an L (Nate Diaz, Khabib, Poirier).

But look at dudes like Ben Askren, who is well known to the casual group mostly because of his personality. Or Derrick Lewis for his antics and post-fight interviews. They're characters. They sell tickets.

Amanda Nunes, on the other hand, arguably the best female fighter in UFC, couldn't draw anywhere near what Paige VanZant, a C-level fighter with a ton of heart, could draw. Why? Paige is a character. Cyborg is a character. Rousey was a character.

So what did UFC do?

You say they always have the best fight the best, but the truth is, that's only when it suits them, which is usually an undercard. Remember guys like Sage Northcutt getting fight after fight? CM Punk making over a million to take an embarrassing L in two fights?

Nah...Dana's just as guilty. He knows like all promoters know.

It's why Vince McMahon in his Royal Rumble the other night had a 48-year old Edge win it with help from a 40-something year old Rey Mysterio, a 40-something year old Jeff Hardy, a 40-something year old Carlito and a 40-something year old Christian, undercarded by a 50+ year old Goldberg spearing the hell out of the champion, who had to beat a 40+ year old Lesnar for it...and a who-knows-how-old Ric Flair had to be brought back because his daughter can't draw money on her own.

All promoters do it, and all for the same reason. If you don't have a marketable character, you're not going to draw money, and if you don't draw money you won't be featured.

I feel you, and once again you have a point.

But hear me out: UFC CONSISTENTLY shows competitive fights, even if it's no-names or uncompelling characters... I don't even like the sport, but I know that whenever I tune in, I'm in for a real competition regardless of who's on. This is why they consistently pull in good ratings.

With boxing, we get god-awful cards like last week's Plant-Truax affair on the regular (and don't think I'm ragging on PBC cos Top Rank and DAZN are just as guilty). Tuning in as a diehard felt like an act of sadomasochism, as I KNEW it would be a one-sided UD. And lo and behold...

Imagine some kid flipping channels somewhere, maybe some kid who's read about & identified w/ Plant as a blue collar guy who's overcome some serious ****... His Twitter disses are funny & he's relatively charismatic. None of that **** matters when the fight is trash, as it was. That kid may never try boxing again, especially when UFC NO-NAME fights produce such fireworks.

This is why I say characters can only do so much to cover & sustain interest in mismatches. Characters + competion = $$$$$. Characters without competition = $$. Now competition without charcters may equal = $ RIGHT NOW, but over the course of time I'd argue it builds the brand loyalty that would eventually lead to profits & UFC-like popularity. The promoters would just have to market it properly and make a sincere effort to rebuild some of the trust they've lost.

[The3]

No Joe Smith & Beterbiev maybe in 2019 can sellout MSG , but with the Covid thing now I don't know

[Satir]

Smith- big puncher
Beterbiev - Monster puncher.

Smith - +average Chin.
Beterbiev - Granite chin.

Smith- big guy.
Beterbiev - Huge Guy.

It’s a mismatch if you ask me.
Respect Mr. Arum trying do his thing and sell a fight. But come on now....

with his 5′ 11½″ and 73″ he's an average size LHW, doesnt blow-up in weight between the fights, always looks the same

[Cobratu]

Smith- big puncher
Beterbiev - Monster puncher.

Smith - +average Chin.
Beterbiev - Granite chin.

Smith- big guy.
Beterbiev - Huge Guy.

It’s a mismatch if you ask me.
Respect Mr. Arum trying do his thing and sell a fight. But come on now....

Do you watch boxing????

Beterbieve has been droppped and wobbled several times he has a very suspect chin.