Comments Thread For: Arum: Ali Was Derided Early On Because He Talked So Much, Teofimo Cut From Same Cloth

[Eff Pandas]

I don’t mind all the pre fight bravado and trash talk to promote a fight but it’s nice to see a bit of mutual respect post fight.

Oh yea me too. I'm not a fan of post-fight antics when a guy might be injured or just still hasn't gotten up to be clear. Honestly I'm not too much of a fan of the trash talk as it just seems silly & pro wrasslin-like to me.

I get it all doe. It's all done in the effort of building up ones name, either positively or negatively no bad press as they say, or hyping the event.

I’m allowed to be confused and grumpy about the younger generation.

Lol fair play. Can't disagree with you here brother. I think that isn't all uncommon a stance of every generation about the next generation in fact.

[Jab jab boom]

Arum - "Floyd is the best since Ali"
Arum - "Pacquiao is better than Ali"
Arum - "Loma is the best since Ali"
Arum - "don't think Ali could beat Fury"
Arum - "Lopez is cut from same cloth as Ali"

Stop shamelessly pimping Ali's name.

[theface07]

It’s a lot more complex than racists just not liking a confident black man.
There’s a lot to admire about Ali in and out of the ring but like most people at different times in their life his views shifted, radicalised and then softened, and some of his views were abhorrent and should be open to criticism without calling racism.
Him referring to Frazier as an Uncle Tom was well out of order and during the late 60’s and early 70’s he was quite radical in his segregationist views. He didn’t believe in races mixing at all and was vehemently opposed to interacial relationships, views held by the governor of Alabama at the time, the ku klux klan and former leader of the BNP party, wonky eyed, fat racist haemorrhoid nick griffin. Not good company.
As I said, there’s a lot to respect and admire about Ali.
His stance on racial segregation shifted as he got older and he chose to speak out about civil rights with a more harmonious outcome. He’s undoubtedly an important figure in the civil rights movement and I admire his stance on Vietnam.
I’m not saying there wasn’t an element of racism and some people who were turned off by Ali because he was a confident black man but also some of his views were way off and I’d be critical of someone with those views whichever race they were.

Good post. You're right, it was a complex situation and Ali's allignment with the Nation of Islam made him a target of whites and blacks who were against violence retribution and segregation. I think it's safe to say that Ali also appreciated the level of security he gained from his association with the Nation. Without that influence, who knows what would've happened at the Liston rematch in Maine. The Italian American mob that controlled Sonny was pissed off that Ali was so brazen and sought his own freedom to control his career. There were talks of possible assassination plots against Ali but the mob more than likely backed off because they didn't want a shootout with the Nation of Islam. They wouldn't just back off out of fear like most Americans at the time.
I'm not saying Ali didn't hold some racist views at the time himself but they were definitely in response to the amount of racism he was subjected to in the south and particularly in his home town of Louisville, Kentucky. He wasn't even allowed to eat at a deli after he won the gold medal for his own country! That is pure racism. Of course two wrongs don't make a right but it's understandable why he alligned with the Nation who were the only group that sought black rights by any means necessary, until the black panthers came along but they were less powerful or influential.

[theface07]

Can you imagine if this kid gets beat up real bad?

I can and in such a case, Bob still has the #1 guy Loma. WTF does he care who wins or loses? He promotes both boxers.

[theface07]

This is true. Ali was on another level.

Lopez is at least better than Loma at trash talking his way and hyping this fight up. Loma has boxing skills but zero personality outside the ring. I wonder how many people in Ukraine are really excited about this fight?

It's not a trash talking competition, it's a fight. No one who knows anything about boxing gives a rat's ass about who's the best trash talker. Only easily amused, lowest common denominator American idiots care about trash talk.
I hate to break it to you but most boxing fans around the world would rather see two high level boxers fight than hear a bunch of meaningless trash talk before a fight. This is a pro sport. Not Jerry Springer.

[Mindgames]

This is true. Ali was on another level.

Lopez is at least better than Loma at trash talking his way and hyping this fight up. Loma has boxing skills but zero personality outside the ring. I wonder how many people in Ukraine are really excited about this fight?

I dont think Lopez is good at trash talk at all. Anyone can talk like him, show no respect ect. No imagination. I dont think the big mouth thing is seen as something to admire in Ukraine. Lomas probably got a personality in hes own language and culture. I always thought GGG sounded alot more menacing in hes own tongue.

[Verus]

This is what you said.

"When Ali talked he put on a show full of poetry, zany antics, wit, and charm. It was a performance that even his most ardent haters enjoyed"

This isn't correct is what I'm saying.

Ali was seen as a boastful ****head who would run from his opponents early on in his career. Idk that he was much of a hero to anyone til he got more militant with the panthers after he won the world title for black folks & protested the war for white folks later. And obviously the white folks were most of the audience & they came to see him lose. Much like Jack Johnson before him & Floyd Mayweather after him.

Idk why mfers always try to change Ali's story. He wasn't loved for the early part of his career.

And in fact he was seen as less of a challenge to Liston as Teo is this weekend. Early Ali & current Teo got a lot of similarities no matter if you like Teo or not.

Now no one is comparing Ali's & Teo's accomplishments. That would be off base & silly. No one is saying Teo is standing up for bigger causes like Ali. That would be ridiculous.

But Teo having folks hate him over his words & actions is definitely very similar to early Ali just like Arum is saying.

And I mean fook if anyone should know it's Arum. One of his best, cheap & most often used marketing angles with his fighters is to compare them to Ali (or other great fighters) in some way. Arum probably gots notes or can pull it outta his ass on a moment's notice how every fighter on his roster is like Ali. Google that sh^t. He's done this type of comparison of some Ali attrubute a million times to Loma, Bud, Floyd, Manny, Oscar, etc & so on with lesser names than those guys.

In fact a headline a few days ago was Loma is the best technical fighter since Ali.

Basically Arum is the greatest of all time at comparing fighters to Ali which is his own Ali comparison.

Much of what you say is true. I agree. Ali was disliked early on because he was brash and boastful and then really hated a bit later for becoming a ****** and for refusing to fight in Vietnam. No one is changing that, but more many of us kids, the young Clay was a breath of fresh air. Throughout his early period, there was a playfulness about him that even his critics appreciated. When he became Ali all of that changed, to the point that even his greatness in the ring was overshadowed by his greatness as a person. During his opposition to Vietnam he was vilified even as he focused less on himself and more on the oppression of Black folks and others.

As for my disliking Teofilo, you are right about that. I appreciate his skills in the ring, but that is as far as it goes. In fairness though, Teofilo is still very young. Maybe he will change and become less self-centered. Maybe I will become less judgemental.