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When the media mentions title defenses and praises it like an accomplishment, it’s mostly an attempt to excuse your resume. Things like loosing a belt and winning it back is really not that great of a thing to brag about, unless you win it back in worthy fashion. Lately I’m seeing too many casuals bragging that their hero’s did this and that. It’s really comes down to what you’ve done Lineally(Who did you beat?) belts don’t mean shet anymore. They’ve basically become a trinket rented to the fighter to fool the casuals
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I’ve never seen someone put down the idea of consecutive title defenses and winning multiple championships at the same time.
You would be fun to have the “Joe Louis or Muhammad Ali” debate with. -
This is true but you have to be above average even fighting average guys and maintain a win streak. Using the heavyweight class again weve never seen such a broad spectrum ,one is wilder with just one talked about title defense who managed 10 of them or so and fury with no title defenses but has easily best up the defending champion ? ha
One thing i know watching boxing throughout the years is the fans can be manipulated anyway they want because they have short term memories to the point all that A.J did to resurrect boxing has been forgotten in a sense after defeating Wlad and causing Fury to return that after his loss it gained soft touches Wilder attention as the main guy with no real substance for doing that and now he lost sp were back to square one but now its Fury and A.J and really thats where it should be .Comment
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I agree that it is completely meaningless in modern boxing. I don't care about it at all. You definitely can't compare eras using title belts as any kind of measure.
Here’s a comparison of 2009-2019 and 1969-1979 welterweight title lineages.
1969-1979
WBC – 28 title fights
Jose Napoles 1969-1970
Billy Backus 1970
Jose Napoles 1970-1975
John Stracey 1975-1976
Carlos Palomino 1976-1979
Wilfred Benitez 1979
WBA – 28 title fights
Jose Napoles 1969-1970
Billy Backus 1970
Jose Napoles 1970-1975 vacated
Angel Espada 1975-1976 (defeated Clyde Gray for the vacant belt, Gray ranked top 4 at welter from ’72-’76)
Pipino Cuevas 1976-1979
So for that decade we had 8 champions, 1 vacated belt, 56 title fights.
2009-2019
WBA – 15 title fights
Vyacheslav Senchenko (who?) 2009-2012
Paulie Malignaggi 2012-2013
Adrien Broner 2013
Marcos Maidana 2013 vacated
Keith Thurman 2015-2016 (beat Robert Guerrero for the vacant belt) vacated
Lamont Peterson 2017 (beat Avenasyan for the vacant belt) vacated
Lucas Matthysse 2018 (beat Tewa Kiram for the vacant belt)
Manny Pacquiao 2018-2019 and now the belt is vacant
WBC – 16 title fights
Andre Berto 2008-2011
Victor Ortiz 2011
Floyd Mayweather 2011-2015 vacated
Danny Garcia 2016-2017 (beat Robert Guerrero for the vacant belt)
Keith Thurman 2017 vacated
Shawn Porter 2018-2019 (beat Danny Garcia for the vacant belt)
IBF – 19 title fights
Isaac Hlatshwayo 2009 (beat Delvin Rodriguez for the vacant belt)
Jan Zaveck 2009-2011
Andre Berto 2011 vacated
Randall Bailey 2012 (beat Mike Jones for the vacant belt)
Devon Alexander 2012-2013
Shawn Porter 2013-2014
Kell Brook 2014-2017
Errol Spence 2017-2019
WBO – 20 title fights
Miguel Cotto 2009
Manny Pacquiao 2009-2012
Tim Bradley 2012-2014
Manny Pacquiao 2014-2015
Floyd Mayweather 2015 vacated
Tim Bradley 2015 (beat Brandon Rios for the vacant belt) vacated
Jessie Vargas 2016 (beat Sadam Ali for the vacant belt)
Manny Pacquiao 2016-2017
Jeff Horn 2017-2018
Terence Crawford 2018-2019
For this decade we have 24 champs, 8 vacated belts, 70 title fights.
This is all to say that even though 4 of the very best fighters in the world for the decade (Mayweather, Pacquiao, Crawford, Spence) did much of their work in the welterweight division, there were still 20 other fighters that won "title" fights in the decade. And if we are using a criteria to rank wins based on whether or not a guy beat a beltholder, then we are saying that this era was vastly better than the 70’s simply because a bunch of suits handed out belts left and right.Comment
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Okay, bet you anything I can show you far, far, worse lineal 'contenders' then any sanctioning body ever pushed on any champion.
I don't appreciate it when others call fans casual and then say something that's really just ignorant to the history they are invoking. I'm not saying you are, I am saying I think you are. And by ignorant I do mean don't know, not ******.
If lineal is the best and sanctioned is all bad, weak, and corrupt, then lineal defenses should look nicer than sanctioned defenses, no?
Maybe you should look into why sanctioning bodies exist in the first place. I think you're backwards and I can trace lineage from Sully, Figg, or Onomastos. Whatever you like really. It doesn't start to look like anything worth glorifying until after the IBU.Comment
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I actually appreciate this. If I’m wrong then hopefully I can get it right and keep clowning foos just like me. But I know I said lineal but I didn’t actually mean the lineal champions. I just meant beating worthy oponents wether they have a belt or not. Okay, bet you anything I can show you far, far, worse lineal 'contenders' then any sanctioning body ever pushed on any champion.
I don't appreciate it when others call fans casual and then say something that's really just ignorant to the history they are invoking. I'm not saying you are, I am saying I think you are. And by ignorant I do mean don't know, not ******.
If lineal is the best and sanctioned is all bad, weak, and corrupt, then lineal defenses should look nicer than sanctioned defenses, no?
Maybe you should look into why sanctioning bodies exist in the first place. I think you're backwards and I can trace lineage from Sully, Figg, or Onomastos. Whatever you like really. It doesn't start to look like anything worth glorifying until after the IBU.Comment
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Yeah title defences count for nothing... Hagler’s title win over Minter is much more valuable than his defences over those bums like Hearns and Duran.
Joe Louis should have just retired in 1937, no point making a load of defences against all those bums.
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Yeah well those are some good names in Haglers case but more recently the defenses that fighters have made have been to just keep them undefeated. And I’m Haglers case the media didn’t waste time highlighting it as a defense because the names were more importantLast edited by JohnCastellanos; 06-11-2020, 04:56 PM.Comment
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Ahh, damn that is an entirely different animal.
If given the full range of history I was going to go with the fellas who literally bought championships or title fights.
Just in Queensberry my focus would have been the early guys, Sullivan, Corbett, even Fitzs, who I really appreciate.
Just a demand for the best to fight the best though? That's not lineal, that is the mandate of the bodies, they just suck at it.
Lineal really means champion controlled. No matter how you cut it, no matter what rules you agree are lineal and what are not what is true is the champion controls that crown. Under that we had just god awful boxing. The bodies came with this cool idea we should rank fighters and force champions to fight the best ranks. Then they ****ed that up.
There is no beef between you and I, I too think the bodies are **** ups.
The boxers won't save us. Give them more power and they'll act just like the old champs did. Don't believe me? Check Money, he acts just like Corbett used to; above boxing.
The bodies corruption comes from the boxers. The bodies are in no way behooved to create hypejobs. The boxers are incentivised to work the body's rules to get the highest ranking they can regardless of fair. The bodies themselves could care less about promotion. They don't even promote themselves, of course they are not behind the scenes ****ing up boxing to promote a bum into position. The bodies do not control career paths either. His promoter and manager do that.
What boxing needs is the bodies to come back together and form one singular entity so that the boxer quit playing one against the other.
People blame the sanctioning bodies for giving boxers a place to hide, which is true, if you don't like one of them you have three others to work with, but what is also true is the bodies don't then tell the boxers hey, go hide from my mandates by fighting for my competitor. The champs do that on their own....promoters, managers....kinda on their own.Comment
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