Do you remember November 10, 2001? Then May 2, 2015 should have been logical.

[Combat Talk Radio]

November 10, 2001. San Francisco.

One of the very few - that I can recall - events featuring both Manny and Floyd on the card. Before both guys blew up.

Manny faced Agapito Sanchez while Floyd faced Jesus Chavez.

People remembered Manny's battle against Sanchez and him damn near getting stopped more than they remember Floyd going to war with Chavez. But there's a good reason.

Manny looked vulnerable against Sanchez. He was expected to run through the guy like he did Ledwaba. Instead he found himself fighting - as you might say, "life or death", bloodied and frustrated. Both guys were throwing for the fences the entire length of the fight, but it was Manny that was left disappointed.




Later, when Floyd tangled with Jesus Chavez - arguably my favorite Mayweather fight - Floyd also had to tap into every trick in his bag to keep Chavez off. He switched constantly from defense, to offense, and Chavez seemed to not tire out as expected. In between missed or blocked punches from Chavez, Floyd would counter with shots through the guard, flush shots that seemed to almost always connect. After the middle rounds, Chavez didn't answer the corner, and Floyd got a stoppage over a very tough, rugged opponent after what seemed to be a blowout on the cards (unless like some, you score ineffective aggression over accuracy and clean punches).




But when you compare the performances of both guys, you should have seen something special in Floyd that night. Not many fighters would have been able to deal with the pressure Chavez was laying on. Manny certainly would not have.

Fast forward to early 2015, Floyd is STILL undefeated, Manny has taken additional losses against guys that can counter, that can box (Erik Morales, Tim Bradley, Marquez). Specialties of Floyd.

Anyone paying attention should have clearly seen that Manny Pacquiao, stylistically, had no chance of beating Floyd Mayweather. It was a pipe dream, one concocted by similarities with Tim Bradley's style and a brief run of beating larger guys.

Larger guys, not more skilled guys.

[sunny31]

November 10, 2001. San Francisco.

One of the very few - that I can recall - events featuring both Manny and Floyd on the card. Before both guys blew up.

Manny faced Agapito Sanchez while Floyd faced Jesus Chavez.

People remembered Manny's battle against Sanchez and him damn near getting stopped more than they remember Floyd going to war with Chavez. But there's a good reason.

Manny looked vulnerable against Sanchez. He was expected to run through the guy like he did Ledwaba. Instead he found himself fighting - as you might say, "life or death", bloodied and frustrated. Both guys were throwing for the fences the entire length of the fight, but it was Manny that was left disappointed.




Later, when Floyd tangled with Jesus Chavez - arguably my favorite Mayweather fight - Floyd also had to tap into every trick in his bag to keep Chavez off. He switched constantly from defense, to offense, and Chavez seemed to not tire out as expected. In between missed or blocked punches from Chavez, Floyd would counter with shots through the guard, flush shots that seemed to almost always connect. After the middle rounds, Chavez didn't answer the corner, and Floyd got a stoppage over a very tough, rugged opponent after what seemed to be a blowout on the cards.




But when you compare the performances of both guys, you should have seen something special in Floyd that night. Not many fighters would have been able to deal with the pressure Chavez was laying on. Manny certainly would not have.

Fast forward to early 2015, Floyd is STILL undefeated, Manny has taken additional losses against guys that can counter, that can box (Erik Morales, Tim Bradley, Marquez). Specialties of Floyd.

Anyone paying attention should have clearly seen that Manny Pacquiao, stylistically, had no chance of beating Floyd Mayweather. It was a pipe dream, one concocted by similarities with Tim Bradley's style and a brief run of beating larger guys.

Larger guys, not more skilled guys.

Manny became a hugely improved fighter throughout his career up to his peak from 2008-10 ...I dont think it's an exaggeration to say 3 or 4 times better. He became a master of his craft.

Floyd probably dropped 2 maybe 3 rounds in that chavez fight, he didnt pitch a shutout at all.

Floyd always had the pedigree, but I dont think the result was ever certain from 2009 on. Manny was too good of a fighter to be counted out.

The two fights have no correlation of style, or any relevance to what happened in 2015 or their careers. Absolutely idiotic thread

[JK1700]

Great thread! While Chavez didn’t have the kind of career he was capable of (The Leavander Johnson fight had a big impact on this, mentally he was never the same after that, understandably), he was a monster at the time of this fight and would’ve beat most guys in and around his division. That fight showed Floyd could do it all, and could also weather the storm, adjust and adapt to a very determined dangerous opponent.

We saw this again and again in the following years. The biggest asset Floyd has is his ring IQ, we’ve seen him against every type of fighter and he dominated all of them. Plenty of times a guy “had success” for a couple rounds but he always adapted and adjusted to this and dominated them. Tall fighters, short fighters, jabbers, boxer punchers, brawlers, I could go on and on. Whereas Manny never made an adjustment to cope better with JMM in all 4 fights. The same fits he had in the first fight were evident in the 4th fight. I’m not saying he’s not a great fighter, but there’s great fighters and then there’s TBE. Genaro Hernandez, Corrales and Marquez are all great fighters too and all 3 combined didn’t win a round against Floyd.

I never bought into Manny being a real threat to Floyd (I was saying it was easy work in 2010) but the media and Top Rank fooled a lot of people. People said JMM was washed when Floyd beat him, then the next year JMM gave a “prime” Manny a complete boxing lesson only to get straight robbed. Then the next year knocks him senseless. Yet they still thought he would beat TBE 3 years after that. They just wanted to see Floyd lose so bad lol. It got to the point where haters were even saying a MMA fighter would beat him, they just wanted to believe it and wanted to see him lose so bad that they overlooked all logic/facts and fooled themselves.

[Combat Talk Radio]

Great thread! While Chavez didn’t have the kind of career he was capable of (The Leavander Johnson fight had a big impact on this, mentally he was never the same after that, understandably), he was a monster at the time of this fight and would’ve beat most guys in and around his division. That fight showed Floyd could do it all, and could also weather the storm, adjust and adapt to a very determined dangerous opponent.

We saw this again and again in the following years. The biggest asset Floyd has is his ring IQ, we’ve seen him against every type of fighter and he dominated all of them. Plenty of times a guy “had success” for a couple rounds but he always adapted and adjusted to this and dominated them. Tall fighters, short fighters, jabbers, boxer punchers, brawlers, I could go on and on. Whereas Manny never made an adjustment to cope better with JMM in all 4 fights. The same fits he had in the first fight were evident in the 4th fight. I’m not saying he’s not a great fighter, but there’s great fighters and then there’s TBE. Genaro Hernandez, Corrales and Marquez are all great fighters too and all 3 combined didn’t win a round against Floyd.

I never bought into Manny being a real threat to Floyd (I was saying it was easy work in 2010) but the media and Top Rank fooled a lot of people. People said JMM was washed when Floyd beat him, then the next year JMM gave a “prime” Manny a complete boxing lesson only to get straight robbed. Then the next year knocks him senseless. Yet they still thought he would beat TBE 3 years after that. They just wanted to see Floyd lose so bad lol. It got to the point where haters were even saying a MMA fighter would beat him, they just wanted to believe it and wanted to see him lose so bad that they overlooked all logic/facts and fooled themselves.

Precisely. I'm not sure why sunny31 ignored/overlooked/forgot the facts you shared about Manny's constant struggles with Marquez, which unfortunately became the main excuse for why Manny lost on May 2, 2015.

And I've corrected the images in the original post. Didn't realize people weren't seeing them.