How do you define prime in boxing terms? What's Canelo/Hopkins prime?

[Chollo Vista]

The word "prime" seems to be subjectively thrown around. By definition, it's "a state or time of greatest strength, vigor, or success in a person's life".

First, what's your definition of prime in boxing terms?

Secondly, when were Canelo and Hopkins prime?

Can a fighter lose in his prime and still be prime afterwards; especially, since by definition, it only means greatest strength or peak.

If Hopkins lost to Jones, Taylor, Calzaghe, Dawson, Kovalev, etc.... Who beat prime Hopkins? Anybody?

If Canelo lost to Mayweather, with close decisions over Trout, Lara, G and I feel Jacobs; who beat prime Canelo? Anybody?

I'm open to an objective discussion on a boxers prime.

[MUNG]

if a fighter is within a certain age bracket with a certain number of fights under their belt and on a good run of form its hard to argue they are not prime, age prime at least (maybe 25 to (32 - 34))

[Thraxox]

I consider Canelo in his prime from age 25 and onward. He maybe young but dont he surprised that he will start slowing down sooner than later.

[Citizen Koba]

The word "prime" seems to be subjectively thrown around. By definition, it's "a state or time of greatest strength, vigor, or success in a person's life".

First, what's your definition of prime in boxing terms?

Secondly, when we're Canelo and Hopkins prime?

Can a fighter lose in his prime and still be prime afterwards; especially, since by definition, it only means greatest strength or peak.

If Hopkins lost to Jones, Taylor, Calzaghe, Dawson, Kovalev, etc.... Who beat prime Hopkins? Anybody?

If Canelo lost to Mayweather, with close decisions over Trout, Lara, G and I feel Jacobs; who beat prime Canelo? Anybody?

I'm open to an objective discussion on a boxers prime.

Man, that one's a good question... the definition you provided really can't be beat, that's exactly what we're going to be talking about, although you might want to read one of Breadman's recent Dailys where he makes a delination between prime and peak with Prime being an extended run or period and Peak being the very best times or moments within that Prime... usually those where a fighter has looked all but unbeatable for a spell.

Ima generalise a bit here just to lay down a framework but in the medial weightclass - loosely about 147 - 168 I'd say prime is on average between about the ages of 28 and 32 and is (once again typically) the period where a fighter has a wealth of experience but is yet to begin a real physical decline. Before 28 or so most fighters just haven't reached their full skill and experience potential and after 32 or so the physical decline can no longer be compenstaecd for by the greater experience.

Typically this average prime range is younger at the lower weighclasses where ther's the greatest dependence of the rapid reflexes maybe 265/6 up to 30 or so, and higher 30 -35 or even 40 in the real big guys who simply don't move as fast anyway. Simple biology that our reflexes and response times decline earlier than our strength and endurance.

Now then of course there's always exceptions - many, many of them, of course... Hopkins is a fine example, he started getting beaten by fast guys as he aged, Jermaine at MW and Chad at 175, but his cerebral stle and huge ring IQ allowed him to fight in a way that neutralised his opponents best assests rather than trying to beat 'em at their own game and in this way he manged to beat solid if not absolutely elite opposition right up to near 50 years old, ,an almost unbelievable record which for me has him ranked well within the greats of the sport. His 'prime' was probably up till about 2005 and the Taylor losses but you could maintain that he kinda extended that well into his 40s maybe up til 2011ish with excellent matchmaking and great ring intellect.


Canelo I'd say is probably in his prime right now and I think may still be improving. He seems to have added to his skillset with the wealth of top level talent he's been exposed to and I think may prove almost impossible to beat either at 160 or 168 for the next 2 or 3 years even without the slightly favourable judging he's often enjoyed.


Damn, apologies man, I ain't finished giving my thoughts on all your questions but Ms Koba's back with the lil Koba and some wood I ordered and I gotta go build a sandpit..

I'll try to get back to it later on.

[Chollo Vista]

Man, that one's a good question... the definition you provided really can't be beat, that's exactly what we're going to be talking about, although you might want to read one of Breadman's recent Dailys where he makes a delination between prime and peak with Prime being an extended run or period and Peak being the very best times or moments within that Prime... usually those where a fighter has looked all but unbeatable for a spell.

Ima generalise a bit here just to lay down a framework but in the medial weightclass - loosely about 147 - 168 I'd say prime is on average between about the ages of 28 and 32 and is (once again typically) the period where a fighter has a wealth of experience but is yet to begin a real physical decline. Before 28 or so most fighters just haven't reached their full skill and experience potential and after 32 or so the physical decline can no longer be compenstaecd for by the greater experience.

Typically this average prime range is younger at the lower weighclasses where ther's the greatest dependence of the rapid reflexes maybe 265/6 up to 30 or so, and higher 30 -35 or even 40 in the real big guys who simply don't move as fast anyway. Simple biology that our reflexes and response times decline earlier than our strength and endurance.

Now then of course there's always exceptions - many, many of them, of course... Hopkins is a fine example, he started getting beaten by fast guys as he aged, Jermaine at MW and Chad at 175, but his cerebral stle and huge ring IQ allowed him to fight in a way that neutralised his opponents best assests rather than trying to beat 'em at their own game and in this way he manged to beat solid if not absolutely elite opposition right up to near 50 years old, ,an almost unbelievable record which for me has him ranked well within the greats of the sport. His 'prime' was probably up till about 2005 and the Taylor losses but you could maintain that he kinda extended that well into his 40s maybe up til 2011ish with excellent matchmaking and great ring intellect.


Canelo I'd say is probably in his prime right now and I think may still be improving. He seems to have added to his skillset with the wealth of top level talent he's been exposed to and I think may prove almost impossible to beat either at 160 or 168 for the next 2 or 3 years even without the slightly favourable judging he's often enjoyed.


Damn, apologies man, I ain't finished giving my thoughts on all your questions but Ms Koba's back with the lil Koba and some wood I ordered and I gotta go build a sandpit..

I'll try to get back to it later on.

Awesome post. I'd love to hear your continuation

[Mister Wolf]

25-35 like every other man that's walked this earth.

[Citizen Koba]

Awesome post. I'd love to hear your continuation

S'okay man, I really enjoy thinking about this kinda question and a lotta of the time just getting my thoughts down helps clarify it in my own mind... Now, where was I? Completely lost my train of thought...


Right... now of course the 28 - 32 kinda age range assumes your kinda standard career progression but of course there's some major variations... there's the early prime dudes - and what we're talking about here is guys who most likely never reach their full potential, usually through to discipline issues or maybe a lack of resilience or focus. The kids who start off looking great with all the potential to go all the way and then get derailed, maybe after taking their first L or perhaps through personal or behavioural issues.

There really is a lot of these and it ain't surprising, it shouldn't be news to anyone that young men with the kinda ego required for success in boxing and ready access to money and women don't always make the best choices.

Broner is of course perhaps the highest profile example that springs to mind and you gotta wory about Tank going the same way but the sport's littered with them, and of course the vast majority don't even make it as far as he did... kinda sobering to imagine all the talent who gave it up cos their girl got pregnant, they got in with the wrong crew or they needed to pay their rent.


Then you got the late prime guys - more often than not these are guys who either came to the sport late, turned pro late (as in many top level ammys) or didn't get their breaks til late. Of the latter the first example that springs to mind is Maravilla - as a hands down athletic reflex fighter you'd have to imagine his physical prime came much earlier, but it took til he was near 35 years and moving up past his best size old to get his real break and of course there's always gonna be a degree to which quality comes with experience of top opposition... and if you don't get these fights til late maybe you don't hit your highest potential til later, though it can be hard to tell... how good might Sergio had been if he never took that L to Maragrito way back when or had got picked up by a US promoter much earlier?

Another late prime dude who's more current is Beterbiev up at LHW of course, turned pro at 28 but after a great start kinda stalled and is only now really hitting his stride at 34/ 35 years old in terms of the level of his competition - so is he 'prime' now he finally beat another top tier guy in Gvozdyk or was he prime at 30 or so when he probably closer to his physical best but was only blasting out faded former Champs like Campillo or Trout? Honestly don't have an answer, but it's worth a ponder.


What else? - you ask whether a guy can lose and still be in his 'prime'... I'd have to say yes, you can just run into someone on a different level who'll beat you no matter whether you're at your peak or not. I'm thinking maybe Froch here although one could argue he was already past his physical best by the time he ran into Ward... nonetheless he went on to an unbeaten run that propelled him to one of the greats in the relatively short history of the SMW division.

Pascal as well maybe... beat by Froch at age 26 but whent on to have the best run of his career through from 2010 onwards and a champion to this day. Course, it doesn't usually run that way.. most times a guy gets beat it takes something outta him. And when wer're talking about elites very often they won't be perceived the same again.


Ha ha Damn, man, I wrote a lotta words there... hope it all made sense cos I'm just kinda extemporising and didn't really plan that **** out. More just a string of thought s really.

[EDDIE SPERM]

Prime is when you're a force to b reckoned w/ in boxing! Alvarez's prime is right now & B-Hop's prime was when he stopped Felix Trinidad and ODLH. Charlo lost in his prime & look @ him destroying Harrison, Jermell is a different fighter now. JT beat Alien in his prime while Alvarez won't ever suffer defeat in his prime, it's written in the stars !!

[Chollo Vista]

S'okay man, I really enjoy thinking about this kinda question and a lotta of the time just getting my thoughts down helps clarify it in my own mind... Now, where was I? Completely lost my train of thought...


Right... now of course the 28 - 32 kinda age range assumes your kinda standard career progression but of course there's some major variations... there's the early prime dudes - and what we're talking about here is guys who most likely never reach their full potential, usually through to discipline issues or maybe a lack of resilience or focus. The kids who start off looking great with all the potential to go all the way and then get derailed, maybe after taking their first L or perhaps through personal or behavioural issues.

There really is a lot of these and it ain't surprising, it shouldn't be news to anyone that young men with the kinda ego required for success in boxing and ready access to money and women don't always make the best choices.

Broner is of course perhaps the highest profile example that springs to mind and you gotta wory about Tank going the same way but the sport's littered with them, and of course the vast majority don't even make it as far as he did... kinda sobering to imagine all the talent who gave it up cos their girl got pregnant, they got in with the wrong crew or they needed to pay their rent.


Then you got the late prime guys - more often than not these are guys who either came to the sport late, turned pro late (as in many top level ammys) or didn't get their breaks til late. Of the latter the first example that springs to mind is Maravilla - as a hands down athletic reflex fighter you'd have to imagine his physical prime came much earlier, but it took til he was near 35 years and moving up past his best size old to get his real break and of course there's always gonna be a degree to which quality comes with experience of top opposition... and if you don't get these fights til late maybe you don't hit your highest potential til later, though it can be hard to tell... how good might Sergio had been if he never took that L to Maragrito way back when or had got picked up by a US promoter much earlier?

Another late prime dude who's more current is Beterbiev up at LHW of course, turned pro at 28 but after a great start kinda stalled and is only now really hitting his stride at 34/ 35 years old in terms of the level of his competition - so is he 'prime' now he finally beat another top tier guy in Gvozdyk or was he prime at 30 or so when he probably closer to his physical best but was only blasting out faded former Champs like Campillo or Trout? Honestly don't have an answer, but it's worth a ponder.


What else? - you ask whether a guy can lose and still be in his 'prime'... I'd have to say yes, you can just run into someone on a different level who'll beat you no matter whether you're at your peak or not. I'm thinking maybe Froch here although one could argue he was already past his physical best by the time he ran into Ward... nonetheless he went on to an unbeaten run that propelled him to one of the greats in the relatively short history of the SMW division.

Pascal as well maybe... beat by Froch at age 26 but whent on to have the best run of his career through from 2010 onwards and a champion to this day. Course, it doesn't usually run that way.. most times a guy gets beat it takes something outta him. And when wer're talking about elites very often they won't be perceived the same again.


Ha ha Damn, man, I wrote a lotta words there... hope it all made sense cos I'm just kinda extemporising and didn't really plan that **** out. More just a string of thought s really.

Great points. I read it all.

Who would you say beat prime Hopkins?

Regarding your comment about Beterbiev, you say he's prime now at 35 or 36, not sure his age. But if Canelo were to beat him in his next fight, how much you want to bet people will say Canelo beat an old Beterbiev? Lol

[Chollo Vista]

Prime is when you're a force to b reckoned w/ in boxing! Alvarez's prime is right now & B-Hop's prime was when he stopped Felix Trinidad and ODLH. Charlo lost in his prime & look @ him destroying Harrison, Jermell is a different fighter now. JT beat Alien in his prime while Alvarez won't ever suffer defeat in his prime, it's written in the stars !!

I'd have to agree, Canelo's prime is right now... I thought Floyd beat him in his prime, but maybe I was wrong