Who's greater in your book: Marciano or Ward

[aboutfkntime]

body-of-work is not qualifying criteria for greatness... only names

but other criteria does become a factor when deciding between two already-proven GREAT fighters

my observations...

* Ward is a better fighter... he can do more, against different styles... but Marciano's assets were pretty damn effective against all styles... he may not have needed to rematch Kovalev lol

* Ward had a short career... with 3 notable high points, about the same as the Rock

* Marciano does have a better body-of-work... which in itself, is not genuine qualifying criteria... but it pumps up the rock when specifically comparing head-to-head

fcuk knows !

I can provide an opinion... but not with any real degree of certainty... you would need to study the living shlt out of both landscapes in each era to definitively answer that question... which is why genuine historians are worth their weight in gold... deeply understanding the landscape/opposition is the ONLY key

that is a Cliff Rold question... someone who has the passion... KNOWLEDGE... ability... understanding... time... resources... temperament...

the answer to that question would probably boil down to the slight difference between their notable high-points... Marciano's greater body-of-work will likely get little credit, as the assumption will be made that Ward could have achieved the same vs lesser opponents...

that is above my pay grade... and to be honest, that is also above pretty much everyone else's pay-grade as well

#opinionsarelikea55holes,everyonehasone


this punch still gives me chills...




Ward would probably beat you... Marciano would probably WRECK you

[TonyGe]

Isn’t there an argument that LaStarza beat Rock? I remember reading somewhere that Marciano saved himself by scoring a KD and going low regularly. Could be a bias account as I’ve not seen the fight.

I’ve only seen the second fight so I’m only going off what I’ve read, not sure footage is even available tbh.

I've looked for the first fight also couldn't find it.

[RJJ-94-02=GOAT]

I've looked for the first fight also couldn't find it.

That’s the problem with the older stuff, with limited footage it’s hard to truly conceptualise how impressive certain wins were.

[TonyGe]

I don't think the question was head-to-head... ?

No it wasn't head to head but when comparing fighters from different weight classes I usually look at what I think are their assets and liabilities and imagine them at the same size. It's a good start for a comparison for me at least. Mileage may vary.

[Mikeh333]

Marciano - Archie Moore, Ezzard Charles x2, Joe Walcott x2 and Joe Louis.

Great discussion! Those names on Rocky’s resume our top drawer, but weren’t they all rather old by the time Rocky fought them? I know Joe Louis was completely done by then.

[aboutfkntime]

No it wasn't head to head but when comparing fighters from different weight classes I usually look at what I think are their assets and liabilities and imagine them at the same size. It's a good start for a comparison for me at least. Mileage may vary.

ATG is not about head-to-head... ESPECIALLY when comparing guys from different divisions

[Chollo Vista]

Great discussion! Those names on Rocky’s resume our top drawer, but weren’t they all rather old by the time Rocky fought them? I know Joe Louis was completely done by then.

Yeah, everyone says Louis was well past it at that point as were some of the other names like Charles

[Marchegiano]

Thanks for the info man. Crazy to think had it not been for a specialised NYC rule that Marciano would have been 48-0-1, you could imagine the ripple effect upon future boxing. Holmes would have actually equalled Rocks ledger after beating Williams. Michalczewski possibly would have retired at 48-0 as he was chasing Marciano’s 49-0. Completely hypothetical though...

Exactly, Marciano's record is damn near impossible. Even Marciano barely got it.

That's kind of Rock's thing though. He is impossible.

Rocky fights more like a bare knuckle fighter than a modern boxer. Seems impossible to be successful in any modern era that way but he did it.

Rocky hits about three times harder than a 9mm at point blank range. ****ing absurd.

He's too short with little t-rex arms at HW. Not a likely champion.

He started late, not a probable champion there too.

He barely got 49-0 but he did get a record that's just ****ing hard as **** to achieve no matter who you are or who you face.

His amatuer record is dog****. Not a great start for an ATG.

And I know people say who he beat are or were not great when he fought them, but, Joe Louis was unbeaten in his return and probability favors the GOAT when they met. Ezzard Charles gets lumped in with old guys who were past it despite being about a year apart in age, but usually when a guy is about the same age and has twice the experience as the other guy people favor the more seasoned, experienced, and decorated fighter. Walcott was at the top of his game at a late age. He had just perfected his sucka punch and used it to dispatch Charles. The sucka isn't a cheap shot, it's the culmination of Walcott's footwork, shoulder work, and taunting all brought together in a fantastic display. Walcott on paper destroys Marciano, and, of course Archie Moore, by numbers and probability, should have knocked Rock the **** out and solid. Even his title elim by mathematical probability does not favor Marciano given Matthews was just as unbeaten at HW and had a 50+ win streak in the division. Like I said before LaStarza and Layne should have both beaten him if you listened to Nat Fleischer.

the only guy he was actually meant to clobber was ****ell who ended up giving Rocky just as hard a fight as some of the guys favored to teach him a boxing lesson.

Who knows how Marciano always found a way. Maybe he's just the luckiest **** to ever lace up.


Facing him is a marvel of probability as well. He likely wins, he likely wins by KO, and he likely wins by KO that stunts your career to five more fights or less.

13 direct into retirement, improbable, 25 retired 5 fights or less after facing him.... improbable soul stealer, and of course 43 of his 49 fights are KO finishes. Improbable KO artist as well, but, of course these are post career stats. No one knew these sort of stats would carry through his career when he was just 35-0. Layne was a 9-5 favorite before he became number 36.