-
-
OK...well I will give you an opportunity to keep it real then...and would love your opinion of the following post I made regarding Ward and Lucian Bute...to me the situation below is an example of 'not very believable/integrity issues.' Interested to see your opinion on it.
Over-hyped is relative I suppose...I don't really think so...if he was significantly overhyped I don't think we would have seen him show up twice against Canelo...regardless of what one thinks of those two fights, GGG landed significantly more punches on Canelo in those two fights...and did many other commendable things in that fight/his career.
As much as I feel that Ward actually suits your comment about integrity issues/not believable/overhyped...I don't think you can find one post of mine about him where I am emotionally dogging him...I just don't care that much...and I am sure I say as many good things about him/his career as I do negative things.
When you/others make it so personal with GGG and go so over the top/emotional...it certainly makes it seem like has everything to do with him not being part of your tribe and wanting to dog him, rather than objective criticism...at the end of the day, only you can answer that...if you are satisfied with your own answer then that's all there is to it really.
If you do respond, just respond here to the situation with Ward and Bute and don't try to deflect please.I'm not a huge fan of Ward's style (or his persona outside the ring, as you are probably gathering)...but he was a really tough, smart fighter...I think he got away with a lot because he was always fighting at home...but he certainly could be a long day for anyone in there.
I say that to say that if someone wants to think Ward would have been too much for GGG...that is a fair comment...I think prime vs prime...well I don't really know how it would go in a neutral environment (meaning weight/venue/judges/ref etc were all 'fair'.)
As to why I don't really believe Ward about anything - how do you feel about these comments/this situation from Ward about Lucian Bute...I'll try to keep it concise...but after studying comments from GGG/Ward over the past 10 years or so, it is stuff like this that just makes me not believe a word Ward says...and honestly I'm not sure how anyone can.
Video at 1:00 says Ward wants Bute after Super Six tourney...or that winner (which was Ward) should face Bute after the tourney ends:
This is no mixing of words here...it is clear what he is saying.
Now fastforward just 2 fights (7 months I think) later...Ward beats Abraham and Froch.
'Sadly, it doesn't seem like Bute or boxing fans will get the fight they want. Ward showed little interest in Bute at his postfight media conference after his masterpiece against Froch. Sure, Ward earned the right to do what he wants after such a tough road in the Super Six, but it's still disappointing to hear.
"To be perfectly honest, no disrespect to Bute and his team, but they've sat back and they've fought B-level and C-level guys and he did what he was supposed to do," said Ward, failing to grasp that Bute wasn't invited to the Super Six and had no A-level opponents available to him. "He stopped them and he's gotten them out of there. But he's just been sitting back, waiting, while we've been fighting for the past two and a half years against top-level competition.
"So I don't have to go to Lucian Bute right now," Ward said. Going up to light heavyweight for the right fight -- not to campaign up there, but for the right fight -- is an option. So we've just got to sit back and see what makes sense. I think I earned the right to pick the right fight for the right price."
I mention that last comment about going up to LHW for a reason btw...if Ward had said 'I'm willing to face any LHW in the world too'...I would have taken it the same way as GGG/his team's 154-168 comment...basically meaning, under the right conditions, if it makes sense for us (money, weight, venue etc) we would take the fight...I'm mentioning this to point out again that imho I am not 'picking on Ward' or 'giving GGG a pass'...I am just judging them from their own comments.
"That's a tremendous fight for Carl because I know Carl doesn't like Bute," Ward said. "To be perfectly honest, I think Bute has to beat somebody. I'm just gonna be frank with you: He has to beat somebody, an A-level guy, to get a shot. We'll sit back and talk as a team, but off the top of my head, he has to beat somebody. You can't sit back and just take your time while everyone else is working hard and you come in and get the same pay that everyone else gets. It don't work like that. This is a sport, but we also use our brains for business, and we'll sit down and make a solid business decision."
The last part there added in here to show that Ward has always been very conscious of his fight plan...he doesn't seem like he just says 'yes' to a fight right away...he has to really iron out every detail and be in control of basically everything before he fights someone.
GGG seems like he more or less deals fair with people...and knows his role when he is B side or the A side...Ward always thought he was the A-side (money-wise) when he often times wasn't.
And then Ward says this, a few months later, after Bute signed his fight with Froch:
"I was disappointed," Ward said. "Bute and his promoter were screaming and yelling that I was ducking them, then they go and make a two-fight deal with Froch where if he loses, he takes Froch back to Canada? I didn't understand that. I was never ducking him, I just wanted to build up the fight. I was coming off two years of grueling fights and I felt he needed to fight someone. But ducking him? Come on. He wants belts, I have three belts over here if he wants to fight for a belt."
So yeah this is why I view Ward the way I do...and I view GGG more or less like most other fighters, who more or less do what they say.
Again, I don't see how any objective person could read that situation from Ward there and not just kind of roll your eyes...and there are other very similar situations like this from him...and I just don't see how anyone takes him seriously or believes him on anything.
Nothing personal against him...but yeah stuff like that is why I view him and his word the way I do.Comment
-
Any dislike I had for BBB side went away now that Canelo has his titles, legacy, 0 sitting comfortably on his mantle for the rest of time.
Good luck to him fighting the rest of his bum filled career.Comment
-
Man I'm not trying to be rude...but you seem to not know the difference between a fact and an opinion...you are calling your opinions facts, and my facts opinions lol...you also seem to be taking this stuff kind of personally/emotionally...and it's really not like that for me.
I broke down pretty dispassionately my opinion of Ward and GGG in the last post I made...that's just how I saw the two of them really...just the way it goes sometimes...gotta call stuff like you see it...and yeah I don't think I'm really very biased at all with anything I post on here.
I had Fury-Wilder a draw; Floyd beat Pac 8-4 etc...I don't always side with 'my guy'...I just call it like I see it...I don't have low self-esteem (not saying you do) like some apparently do on here, to where I need to project my insecurities onto certain fighters to make myself feel better.
And I don't exactly have the same background as GGG anyway...but even if I did, there are great fighters from all backgrounds to where if I really wanted to project my own issues onto a fighter who was like me, I could have the pick of the litter...as could you, as could anyone really.
To your first paragraph...yes Ward, for every fight in his career, was the home fighter...he either fought everyone in his backyard in Oakland, or close by elsewhere in CA...he fought Froch, a UK fighter, in the US...Ward's cards vs Barrera and Bika were very very favorable...those were close fights...fair to say Ward won both, but it wasn't by much...and when you get hometown referring (as Ward needed generally with his style), then it isn't just about the cards anyway...the Kessler fight is an example of this.
Your second paragraph sounds very emotional and sounds like you are taking it personal..and then you try to project that on me, that I am the one making it personal lol...I'm really not...and again, you are saying your opinions, not facts man...I broke down in the last post as to why I felt Ward was over-hyped, and why GGG wasn't.
And I didn't exactly sh.it on Ward in that post anyway...you can take it as 'lack of respect' lol...but I just call it like I see it with him, and it's not personal to me...I've said many times that he was a very tough, smart fighter...regardless of whether or not he had help, you couldn't implement his style and having any lasting success in there without being tough and smart.
Similar to my opinion that if Lara were from the US, he would probably be undefeated right now...US UK and Mexican fighters get a lot of help sometimes...that is where all the money/hype is, so they get some help sometimes...a lot of Cuban/Eastern Euros don't generally get the same breaks.
And I'm not really 'complaining' about GGG's detractors being 'racist'...I never said that word at all really...I just said that race plays a big factor for people in a lot of things...and I think it brings people together a lot...but also can skew their vision on certain things...and I think this is true for a lot of GGG 'haters'... I don't call them racist or say they are being racist.
Yeah man all I can say is that I like to talk boxing and have discussions...but I learned a while ago that really getting into your feelings about someone else having a different opinion is a waste of time energy and effort...so yeah I just call it like I see it but have no real concern for whether or not you or anyone else agrees...and I certainly don't lose any sleep as to whether anyone on here finds me 'objective'...I just don't care enough to try and be anything other than objective.
Do me a favor and give me your QRD on the following post I made about Ward/Bute btw...just want to see how real you supposedly keep it:
Hint: if you are a Ward fan...an acceptable answer here may be "Hey Ward was just talking sh.it and talking out of both sides of his mouth to try and hype the fight...he was just trying to make good business decisions at the time of those comments"I'm not a huge fan of Ward's style (or his persona outside the ring, as you are probably gathering)...but he was a really tough, smart fighter...I think he got away with a lot because he was always fighting at home...but he certainly could be a long day for anyone in there.
I say that to say that if someone wants to think Ward would have been too much for GGG...that is a fair comment...I think prime vs prime...well I don't really know how it would go in a neutral environment (meaning weight/venue/judges/ref etc were all 'fair'.)
As to why I don't really believe Ward about anything - how do you feel about these comments/this situation from Ward about Lucian Bute...I'll try to keep it concise...but after studying comments from GGG/Ward over the past 10 years or so, it is stuff like this that just makes me not believe a word Ward says...and honestly I'm not sure how anyone can.
Video at 1:00 says Ward wants Bute after Super Six tourney...or that winner (which was Ward) should face Bute after the tourney ends:
This is no mixing of words here...it is clear what he is saying.
Now fastforward just 2 fights (7 months I think) later...Ward beats Abraham and Froch.
'Sadly, it doesn't seem like Bute or boxing fans will get the fight they want. Ward showed little interest in Bute at his postfight media conference after his masterpiece against Froch. Sure, Ward earned the right to do what he wants after such a tough road in the Super Six, but it's still disappointing to hear.
"To be perfectly honest, no disrespect to Bute and his team, but they've sat back and they've fought B-level and C-level guys and he did what he was supposed to do," said Ward, failing to grasp that Bute wasn't invited to the Super Six and had no A-level opponents available to him. "He stopped them and he's gotten them out of there. But he's just been sitting back, waiting, while we've been fighting for the past two and a half years against top-level competition.
"So I don't have to go to Lucian Bute right now," Ward said. Going up to light heavyweight for the right fight -- not to campaign up there, but for the right fight -- is an option. So we've just got to sit back and see what makes sense. I think I earned the right to pick the right fight for the right price."
I mention that last comment about going up to LHW for a reason btw...if Ward had said 'I'm willing to face any LHW in the world too'...I would have taken it the same way as GGG/his team's 154-168 comment...basically meaning, under the right conditions, if it makes sense for us (money, weight, venue etc) we would take the fight...I'm mentioning this to point out again that imho I am not 'picking on Ward' or 'giving GGG a pass'...I am just judging them from their own comments.
"That's a tremendous fight for Carl because I know Carl doesn't like Bute," Ward said. "To be perfectly honest, I think Bute has to beat somebody. I'm just gonna be frank with you: He has to beat somebody, an A-level guy, to get a shot. We'll sit back and talk as a team, but off the top of my head, he has to beat somebody. You can't sit back and just take your time while everyone else is working hard and you come in and get the same pay that everyone else gets. It don't work like that. This is a sport, but we also use our brains for business, and we'll sit down and make a solid business decision."
The last part there added in here to show that Ward has always been very conscious of his fight plan...he doesn't seem like he just says 'yes' to a fight right away...he has to really iron out every detail and be in control of basically everything before he fights someone.
GGG seems like he more or less deals fair with people...and knows his role when he is B side or the A side...Ward always thought he was the A-side (money-wise) when he often times wasn't.
And then Ward says this, a few months later, after Bute signed his fight with Froch:
"I was disappointed," Ward said. "Bute and his promoter were screaming and yelling that I was ducking them, then they go and make a two-fight deal with Froch where if he loses, he takes Froch back to Canada? I didn't understand that. I was never ducking him, I just wanted to build up the fight. I was coming off two years of grueling fights and I felt he needed to fight someone. But ducking him? Come on. He wants belts, I have three belts over here if he wants to fight for a belt."
So yeah this is why I view Ward the way I do...and I view GGG more or less like most other fighters, who more or less do what they say.
Again, I don't see how any objective person could read that situation from Ward there and not just kind of roll your eyes...and there are other very similar situations like this from him...and I just don't see how anyone takes him seriously or believes him on anything.
Nothing personal against him...but yeah stuff like that is why I view him and his word the way I do.
A bad take would be "Well Ward was right etc etc"...even if you like a guy you don't have to defend everything he says or does.Last edited by Boxing_1013; 02-08-2020, 01:18 PM.Comment
Tweet
Comment