Comments Thread For: Wilder-Fury Rematch - Pay-Per-View Undercard Information

[Vinnykin]

I'll pay the £20 for the main event, watch it with friends, spend the difference I save to the US PPV on Coke.

[Outwest Exp 355]

The Brits created modern boxing in the 1880's, yet another world sport we delivered.
You have created..... Zero... Not a single American sport is an international standard. Not one.

So what who dominated it?

[Robertthebruce]

Washington and Martin??? Title Eliminator?? Pbc just keeps on recycling and putting the same crap in-house fights between multi-loss no-hopers!!

They all do it not just pbc. Here in UK hearn keeps recycling Chisora, Price etc

[Angeljuice]

So what who dominated it?

So you ran with our sport and almost destroyed it with corruption and greed.
We lead, you follow.

[1hourRun]

[Marchegiano]

The Brits created modern boxing in the 1880's, yet another world sport we delivered.
You have created..... Zero... Not a single American sport is an international standard. Not one.

What the **** is this ****?

Just making up history? What the ****?


Sparta invented boxing as a sport, England picked it up as a martial art during the renaissance back when digging up greco-roman **** was all the rage amongst anglo aristocracy. Swords fell out of fashion for duels and fellas who had a score to settle but were not so aggrieved as to wish death or risk their own lives to a bullet would instead "fence with fists"

By the 1720s the focus had shifted from honor duels to more exhibition style dueling. No disrespect needed, just two guys fighting to prove who is best for the pleasure of a crowd.

Figg and Figg alone set down the origins of English boxing as a sport in his amphitheatre. He didn't box in his era of sport and is a duelist leftover from the dueling era, but, he did organize and publicize boxing.

By the 1780s Daniel Mendoza took notice that boxing still followed old sword techniques and had not actually updated, despite the term fencing with fists being popular a full hundred years prior to his lifetime, to the new styles and forms fencing and swords like rapiers brought. Figg was a broadswordsmen, fought like one, trained others like one. Daniel The *** Mendoza is solely responsible for what we consider defense today. 1780s. He's moving, countering, posturing, and baiting, like a pro boxer today.

Mendoza was hated, racially, by his audience and so boxing as an industry conspired against him. He did not lose a boxing match, he was cheated and had no recourse for the cheating because most rules were simply frowned on not codified. For example, most fights, when a crowd rushes the ring and beats up a guy the fight is over and no one won. Most fights up to this point is a man grabbed another man about their hair to hold them still that man would be disqualified. These were not codified but rather honor bound conducts.

From then 1780s-1830s the English boxing authority, they were called the Fancy, took great pains to codify fair rule sets. Storming the ring to make sure the right man won became illegal in the 1820s after Champion Tom Spring said " Yeah, no more of that" I kid, after Mendoza was cheated the man who did the cheating formed a pugilistic society, the first authority outside of the venue, the first form of sanctioning, and made what he did to Mendoza illegal. By the 1820s, Spring went to the same entity and with their help added the rule no more rushing. Just one example, loads took place.

I should backtrack for a quick stop to the 1810s. Saw racial integration and eating right.

By the late 20s and early 30s the English title fell under the control of the Ward gang. I won't go too into detail because no matter how I brief it the story of English boxing is long and this just makes it well longer. I could write a book on the bull**** the Wards did alone. Let's just point out the champion was using champion prerogative to justify fixed fights, ducking, stealing, and refusing to pass his title on to anyone.

Jem Ward held the English championship hostage and not even the English were appreciative let alone the rest of the boxing world.

James Burke would come to the US beltless but considered champion by most. Ward had stolen from him, stripped him without fighting, refused to award him the title on the grounds that though Burke was born in London he was not English enough.

The Irish champion Sam O'Rourke had beaten Burke to the states, he too struggled to get beyond the Ward gang hold on boxing in England. In America they fought for the HW title and stripped Jem Ward by doing so.

This is kinda like the Fury situation except a little worse. Burke did not get Ward's belt...ever.

Over in England, Ward still held the title and was treated like a champion as much as Burke. Caunt and Bendigo fight for Ward's version of the title. Caunt is DQ'd for having hit Bendigo while he was seated in his corner between rounds. Ward does not give his title to Bendigo. Caunt rematches Bendigo and this time Bendigo is DQ'd, as per the Ward gang's demands, on the grounds Bendigo was flopping, going down without being hit. Ward does not give Caunt his title. Caunt then fights Nick Ward, Jem's younger brother. Nick Ward's gang forced the ref to DQ Caunt, alledgeding he it Ward while Ward was down. Nick Ward is now the Ward champion, but, brother Jem does not give him his title as he will have to rematch Caunt in Caunt's territory. Nick fights Caunt again, this is a fair fight, Nick Ward gets KO'd by Ben Caunt. While Nick and Ben fight James Burke fights Bendigo in England as well. This is a fair fight between two victims of the Ward gang. Bendigo wins, does a summersault and hurt himself, and finally, Jem Ward releases his title to William Thompson "Bendigo"


It is this atmosphere that bring America into boxing and why America has never been beholden to English boxing. The English Fancy created the American Gentry due to their frustration with English champions. It is not by chance that while Burke goes home to try to be the champion in his people's eyes America crowns her first home grown champion. It is not by chance Yankee Sullivan rises to fame after Burke fights in the US.

This was an organized and thought out effort to create an alternative the English control over boxing done by the English themselves.

in 1841 the Ward gang is still in control of the title right as America crowns her first American champion.

by the 1850s America has a whole different set of ideals and is the sole reason behind sparring practices today. Olden, English, boxing did not spar as they felt it dulled the senses and normalized too much to rely on their emotions. In America, sparring became a counter culture to boxing. It was not used to lead up to fights, it was used on its own. The goal was to display skills and go on exhibitions with a partner showing how good a fighter can become and how unnecessary it is to actually do damage.

This makes its way back to England and by the 1860s we see guys like Mace, mostly Jem Mace, going around the boxing world, England, US, Aussie, Canada, and Ireland, to teach boxing. The combination of sparring, eating right, and training under the tutelage of great former champions throughout the boxing world brought rise to the first standardization for boxing across the globe. Now the difference between English and US boxing isn't found so much in the martial art itself as much as in the culture. Now, everyone spars, everyone trains, everyone eats right, everyone takes pains to guard and move. the 1860s is when modern boxing is born.

It is not by coincidence the QB rules were written in the 1860s.

Jem Mace would also be the first champion to fight under these rules and to be honest I am not sure why he's not considered the first gloved champion.

This is also the period, also not by coincidence, that we see our first "world" champions. England put up their guy against America and when Heenan started to take over the fight it was called so that Sayers could walk away with a draw and both men awarded titles.

Through this standardization rose one nation who dominated the rest and so boxing looked to them for leadership. This is 1880s boxing. When John L Sullivan was king there was no viable alternative and no one really cared who was the Canadian, English, Australian, etc champions.

England, having a differing culture, had no problem with black men in title fights. America did, and the world followed. England, having held control over boxing almost exclusively, made the attempt to globalize boxing under the English banner and failed. It was America and American boxing that lead the way and it did not matter if a black man owned the English or Australian, or whatever title, in America he was just a contender and did not have the option to be more and so to this day their reigns are not recognized while American bare knuckle reigns and English bare knuckle reigns are.

If England had any say in 1880 then black men would fight for titles.

If Canada had any say then black men would fight for titles.

If Australia had any say then black men would fight for titles.

If Ireland had any say then black men would fight for titles.


Is Peter Jackson a lineal HW champion? No? Why? Because to this very day America outright owns 1880s boxing so much so that not even revisionists who would set right the wrongs of racism would go as far as to make Pater Jackson equal to John L. Sullivan.


Have you ever heard of John Perry? The Black man who owned the Australian title for 13 years straight? Nope, because Australian history doesn't matter does it? It's just for nerds like me to know and go "huh" isn't it? Can you without looking it up tell me who Sullivan's English counterpart was? Exactly, no one gave any ****s about Charlie Mitchell, no gives any ****s today either.

The only 1880s champion from England of any note is Joe Goss, the guy who picked up the title off a DQ, got KO'd then became John's backer....not an Englishmen's.




Y'all have loads to brag about in boxing. The 1880s is not a time for any of that. That's an American time, and, you're talking about a time when America too a 20 year old English idea and forced it on the world.

You can claim y'all invented bare knuckle. You can claim y'all ivented the vast majority of techniques. Y'all can claim youse invented modern boxing and gave it to the world in the 1860s, but, 1880s Brits deliver modern boxing? **** no, by the 1880s your time is over and your nation's influence is second at best but honestly third to Australia who was kicking ass at this time.




What exactly did England do in the 1880s to deliver global boxing to the world? The 1850s-60s standardization or the 1880s American global influence?

In the 1880s America spread boxing and made it what it is today. Thanks for tools, but y'all did not make boxing a global sport. American did. If y'all had I imagine the history of the title from 1880s-1930s would have been more inclusive.