Why do we recognize any champion who isn’t lineal?

[QueensburyRules]

People complain there are too many champions in boxing.

There’s actually only four if you recognize the man who beat the man instead of this alphabet nonsense.

Let’s boycott all the titles and never talk about them again. Lineal championships are all that matter and it makes boxing much easier to follow.

- -Why U recognize never a champ SMSr?

[dibzvincent143]

Because lineal can be just as much or more nonsense. GGG had most of the belts a while back and damn near everybody thought of him as the real champ and the best middleweight in the world. The lineal middleweight champ was Martinez who refused to fight GGG. Then Cotto beat a washed up crippled Matinez at a catchweight of 159. Cotto also refused to fight GGG and did not fight anybody for a full year. Then Cotto defended his WBC and lineal title against Geale at a catchweight of 157 even though GGG had already KOed Geale in 4 rounds not long before Cotto fought Geale. Then Cotto defended his title against Canelo at yet another Catchweight of 155. Canelo beat Cotto but he too refused to fight GGG and fought Khan instead again at a catchweight of 155. Then the WBC striped Canelo of the title when he refused to fight GGG. So who was the real champ then? GGG who owned the WBC, IBF and WBA world titles and was trying to fight WBO champ Saanders or Canelo who was still the lineal middleweight champ but had no belts and had never fought above 155. For me it was a no brainer. GGG was the real champ not lineal champ Canelo. Then you have Fury who won the lineal heavyweight title but did not defend it for well over 3 years and lost all his world titles. Is Fury still champ? Not to me.

This response is definitely getting ducked

[ShaneMosleySr]

Then there hasn’t been a champion at 130 or 126 in over 10 years because no one will clean out the division. Fine with me. I’m not sure why this is a problem.

Some divisions have not had a lineal champions for years because the current champions don't unify 3 or more belts

2008: Was the last time there was a lineal champion at 130
2005: last time 126 had one

[ShaneMosleySr]

Canelo was the middleweight champion because he beat the guy who beat the guy.

He and Golovkin did eventually fight. If Golovkin had won, he would be middleweight champion. He lost so Canelo remained middleweight champion.

Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

Fury isn’t lineal champion because he retired after winning the championship. You can’t remain champion if you retire.

Again, pretty cut and dry.

Because lineal can be just as much or more nonsense. GGG had most of the belts a while back and damn near everybody thought of him as the real champ and the best middleweight in the world. The lineal middleweight champ was Martinez who refused to fight GGG. Then Cotto beat a washed up crippled Matinez at a catchweight of 159. Cotto also refused to fight GGG and did not fight anybody for a full year. Then Cotto defended his WBC and lineal title against Geale at a catchweight of 157 even though GGG had already KOed Geale in 4 rounds not long before Cotto fought Geale. Then Cotto defended his title against Canelo at yet another Catchweight of 155. Canelo beat Cotto but he too refused to fight GGG and fought Khan instead again at a catchweight of 155. Then the WBC striped Canelo of the title when he refused to fight GGG. So who was the real champ then? GGG who owned the WBC, IBF and WBA world titles and was trying to fight WBO champ Saanders or Canelo who was still the lineal middleweight champ but had no belts and had never fought above 155. For me it was a no brainer. GGG was the real champ not lineal champ Canelo. Then you have Fury who won the lineal heavyweight title but did not defend it for well over 3 years and lost all his world titles. Is Fury still champ? Not to me.

[ShaneMosleySr]

Lineal champions aren’t decided by fans.

No respected boxing publication lists Tyson Fury as the lineal heavyweight champion, so who cares what the fans think.

If someone recognized Pacquiao as lineal champion at 130 for beating one person, they would be wrong.

Who cares if casuals recognize lineal champions? They’re casuals for a reason.

And Lineal is usually decided by fans via certainty...

For example, many casuals still consider Fury as the reigning lineal champion at Heavyweight even after his 2-year inactivity and Twitter drama just because he returned while the championship is still vacant...

I wonder if all of a sudden, GrandPac decides to move down to 130 or 126 and then beat Davis or Santa Cruz... I doubt that the same people who view Fury as champion won't recognize him...

Some lineal champions aren't even recognized by casuals...

[ShaneMosleySr]

What historians don’t recognize lineal champions?

ABC titles and lineal titles didn’t even conflict with one another until the 1980s.

some lineal champions aren't even recognized by hardcores, and barely even register with historians... because they are clearly not the best guy in the division

not sure which is more over-rated, lineal or P4P

[ShaneMosleySr]

Who became lineal champion without beating the champion or clearing out the division?

I don't recognise lineal ahead of belts or vice versa. Both produce absurdities.

You know when someone is the best, or even has a claim to be the best. They beat the other guys. Until then, I don't care what belts or titles you've won or been given.

[ShaneMosleySr]

Lineal is never as bad as the organizations. There isn’t one example of that ever being the case.

Lineage does get broken and the rule is clean out the division and you’re champion. Pretty simple.

Until Golden Boy Promotions bought Ring Magazine, I would absolutely leave it up to them. I trust boxing journalists to decided these things way more than I trust an ABC belt.

Not having a champion in a division is a good thing if the division hasn’t been cleared out by one guy. If that’s the case, there shouldn’t be a champion.

I voted in all of the boxingscene championship polls except for 122 because it left out lineal champion Guillermo Rigodeaux. I was also disappointed there wasn’t an option to pick no one since there isn’t always a champion in every division.

Lineal can be just as bad as the orgs on occasion, and besides lineages get broken all the time and there ain't one set of defining rules of how you start a new one. You could go with Ring's opinion of course, but you really want to leave it up to Ring? Besides, you end up with a situation where most of the time in most the divisions you're gonna have no champion, and I'm not sure that's a good situation either - people want to know who 'the man' is.

Why don't you throw your votes in on the 'Scene Championship poll, man. That's the closest we're gonna get to actually having a say - and one Champ per division - and the more votes it gets the more it'll legitimise it.

[ShaneMosleySr]

Exactly! And if the ABC titles strip someone who’ done just that, they’re still champion.

If they win a title they are titlists. If they win all the titles, they are the champion.

[ShaneMosleySr]

Exactly. And now with regular titles, silver, gold and diamond titles, franchise titles, etc. it’s gotten beyond insane and needs to be ignored.

Professional Boxing is a business disguised as a sport.

They make money from casuals. The words "world champion" fool the majority of them!