Comments Thread For: Derevyanchenko: If GGG Says 'No' - Give Me Canelo or Charlo!

[NachoMan]

You certainly don't follow, if you would categorize Sergiy Derevyanchenko as a gatekeeper (under YOUR criteria).

And Terence Crawford. Right? Because Crawford has ONLY beaten B-levels. SO he's a gatekeeper under YOUR criteria.

What say you?

Well, we've got different definitions of gatekeepers and A& B-level fighters, it seems. IMO, its hard to call an undefeated champion and consensus Top #1 or #2 P4P guy a gatekeeper, so, no, Bud Crawford certainly is not one. Deryvanchenko is certainly a guy who is separating the wheat and chaff at MW, but, truthfully, even he might take offense to the gatekeeper label. After all, his only losses were controversial decisions to elite MWs.

I suppose there is no real objective criteria for identifying a gatekeeper. For me, its simply a guy who consistently separates the pretenders from the legitimate contenders. He competes with the elite, but doesn't generally beat them. He does, however, hold back the middle and lower rung guys. Guys like Luis Collazo or Josesito Lopez at WW come to mind, though they both have suffered L's to middle rung guys, so who knows. Anyway, I suppose I got a bit disrespectful in my last post, so I apologize for that. You obviously know the sport.

[Combat Talk Radio]

Well, we've got different definitions of gatekeepers and A& B-level fighters, it seems. IMO, its hard to call an undefeated champion and consensus Top #1 or #2 P4P guy a gatekeeper, so, no, Bud Crawford certainly is not one. Deryvanchenko is certainly a guy who is separating the wheat and chaff at MW, but, truthfully, even he might take offense to the gatekeeper label. After all, his only losses were controversial decisions to elite MWs.

I suppose there is no real objective criteria for identifying a gatekeeper. For me, its simply a guy who consistently separates the pretenders from the legitimate contenders. He competes with the elite, but doesn't generally beat them. He does, however, hold back the middle and lower rung guys. Guys like Luis Collazo or Josesito Lopez at WW come to mind, though they both have suffered L's to middle rung guys, so who knows. Anyway, I suppose I got a bit disrespectful in my last post, so I apologize for that. You obviously know the sport.

No need to apologize. That's what the forum's for - to talk boxing.

But you said something key to me and I bolded it for importance. Especially the word "competes".

For me, when I look at a guy like Shawn Porter who DOES "compete with the elites", and then I look at a guy like Crawford who so far has not, I struggle to list the second guy as anything P4P. Because we haven't seen him tested, TRULY tested, against a threat.

We've seen Porter tested multiple times. He's shown up once (Garcia), lost the other three razor close, disputed each time. The three he lost, all undefeated champions at the time at the top of the welterweight division. Only one of them can I not say has/had "elite" skills - and that's Kell Brook. Spence was unknown but showed me IN that fight that his skill level is up there.

What I know will happen is, Crawford will face someone like Spence, go to a close decision, NSB will scream robbery despite it not being a robbery (especially if Crawford loses or it's a draw). Or he'll face Porter, go life or death and possibly get wobbled, even in victory, and NSB will scream that Crawford was exposed.

Why do I believe this? Because it's exactly what happened to Golovkin against Canelo and Derevyanchenko.

But then Golovkin fits perfectly in your definition of "competes with the elite, but doesn't generally beat them". He was competitive now against TWO top fighters and another one not believed to be a top fighter (Sergiy), but got the job done against two of them and all three were disputed. So is he a gatekeeper? I don't think anyone would say that.

But I'll tell you this. I rate Golovkin MUCH higher than I rate Crawford, for the exact reasons you said: Golovkin HAS competed with top fighters. He HAS shown great skill against those fighters even in loss. He HAS been tested, multiple times now. So no, I'm not part of that 'consensus'. Fighters have to SHOW ME they can deal with clear threats. Until they do that, they don't rate higher than other fighters that have shown it.

[j.razor]

Charlo will probably avoid/duck Andrade. Charlo is crap against southpaws (despite having one of the slickest, most skilled southpaws as his regular sparring mate in Erislandy Lara), we saw that against Trout and against Koborov, I see him ducking Andrade at all costs, and that's some bullshieet!

As for GGG, lol, please. You continuously prove yourself to be both an idiot and a casual. GGG was ordered by the wbc to fight Charlo and ran away with his tail between his legs. Don't tell me about that clown, he, like Canelo, has blatantly ducked Charlo.

Charlo ain't no saint. He blatantly ducked Jacobs and he won't even mention Andrade. He a duck too.

The only one in the division that ain't ducked no one is Derevyanchenko and Jacobs. Now those guys have my respect.

GGG, Charlo, Canelo, all three are a bunch of bish azz ducks, add Saunders too to that list, and Andrade (first thing he did when he moved up was to blatantly duck Derevyanchenko and did a WHOLE lot of ducking at 154).

It's sad that only Jacobs and Derevyanchenko have a pair of balls in this division.

Didn't Boo Boo duck Jermell in 2014? You really think Jermall would duck Boo Boo?? Negative.

[j.razor]

The charlo fight would be good, decent clash of styles. Not sure charlo takes the fight tho.

Be sure cuz he would take it.

[j.razor]

You silly fool! Do you not remember Sergey overpricing himself against Canelo???
Now he's saying he'll fight Canelo if he can't get a Triple g rematch....
I hope Canelo tells him to fucc off!
Hope Canelo tells him that if he wants to fight him then he has to accept half a million dollars cause that's all he's worth without a belt....
Then you'll see that biitch Sergey crying and moaning and ducking Canelo cause he's not getting what he feels he deserves....
Motherfuccers want retirement money when they fight Canelo.
And yes Triple g ducked Sergey last year but he did finally get in the ring with him so tell Charlo to grow some nutts and fight someone with a pulse!
Canelo already beat Triple gs and Jacob's ass and he's moving up to fight Kovalev... Now you think Kovalev is an easier fight than Charlo?? If you do then your an idiot who doesn't know shet about boxing!
So why would anyone think Canelo is ducking Charlo when he's moving up to fight a much tougher opponent????
Think about that you fool!

My dude, he has tried. They ducking Jermall. Pvssy-G, his team & his fans were all afraid of that fight. That was the "fight someone with a pulse" step but Pvssy-G ducked & ducked hard.

https://www.facebook.com/premierboxi...9821466929889/

https://www.boxingscene.com/wbc-prez...happen--133873

I would BET Jermall K.O.'s Pvssy-G then and now.

[j.razor]

Nah, I'm a boxing fan so I want best to fight the best but Al Gaymon won't let Charlo sister to cross the street will he? Same excuse for Charlo sisters when real warriors like Ruiz don't care about the street.

If you were a real "fan" then you would stop faking the funk like you ALWAYS do.

[NachoMan]

No need to apologize. That's what the forum's for - to talk boxing.

But you said something key to me and I bolded it for importance. Especially the word "competes".

For me, when I look at a guy like Shawn Porter who DOES "compete with the elites", and then I look at a guy like Crawford who so far has not, I struggle to list the second guy as anything P4P. Because we haven't seen him tested, TRULY tested, against a threat.

We've seen Porter tested multiple times. He's shown up once (Garcia), lost the other three razor close, disputed each time. The three he lost, all undefeated champions at the time at the top of the welterweight division. Only one of them can I not say has/had "elite" skills - and that's Kell Brook. Spence was unknown but showed me IN that fight that his skill level is up there.

What I know will happen is, Crawford will face someone like Spence, go to a close decision, NSB will scream robbery despite it not being a robbery (especially if Crawford loses or it's a draw). Or he'll face Porter, go life or death and possibly get wobbled, even in victory, and NSB will scream that Crawford was exposed.

Why do I believe this? Because it's exactly what happened to Golovkin against Canelo and Derevyanchenko.

But then Golovkin fits perfectly in your definition of "competes with the elite, but doesn't generally beat them". He was competitive now against TWO top fighters and another one not believed to be a top fighter (Sergiy), but got the job done against two of them and all three were disputed. So is he a gatekeeper? I don't think anyone would say that.

But I'll tell you this. I rate Golovkin MUCH higher than I rate Crawford, for the exact reasons you said: Golovkin HAS competed with top fighters. He HAS shown great skill against those fighters even in loss. He HAS been tested, multiple times now. So no, I'm not part of that 'consensus'. Fighters have to SHOW ME they can deal with clear threats. Until they do that, they don't rate higher than other fighters that have shown it.

I think you will see in time that Bud Crawford really is as good as advertised. I completely agree that a fighter has to be primarily measured by his performances against top-level competition, but if you're at all suggesting that someone like Sean Porter should be rated higher than Crawford because he's been in more marquee fights, then I think your rating standard has holes. Bud, at the moment, is missing out on opportunities to prove his greatness beyond doubt due to a political circumstance outside of his control. He would absolutely be the betting favorite against EVERY SINGLE welterweight in the game today, including Spence - for good reasons. Knowledgeable boxing fans know what they see before their eyes and most of them rate Crawford at or very near the top of the sport P4P. Crawford consistently fights top ranked competition and he completely shows them all up. Sean Porter has fought great competition and has acquitted himself well even in losing, but does anybody anywhere think he would leave the ring with anything but another loss if he faced Crawford? Nope.

Golovkin doesn't fit my definition of a gatekeeper. He's lost just once and controversially (to some, I thought Canelo clearly won the rematch). A gatekeeper is not a top level fighter; he's a clear second-tier guy who has demonstrated that he is not and won't ever be top-tier again. GGG may not be the best MW in the world, but he's still top-level, so he could not fairly be labeled a gatekeeper (yet).

[Abby26]

Derev duckd canelo forcg him to lose his ibf belt now wants to fight canelo? ha!!! sorry bud u pickd the wrong guy to cross. back to siberia u go. u had yr chance and u threw it away now earn it *****. beat a champion and maybe canelo blesses u

[Combat Talk Radio]

Crawford consistently fights top ranked competition and he completely shows them all up.

What elite level fighter has Terence Crawford fought - much less beat - at welterweight?

There's only one correct answer: none.

And until he does - whether he beats them or not - we don't know jack about what Crawford can or should be able to do.

A fighter is only as good as his last victory. Crawford is the only fighter in the current generation whose last win came off a low blow against a guy who is allegedly working with a glass jaw - one that Crawford was unable to crack for some reason.

[BigStomps]

My dude, he has tried. They ducking Jermall. Pvssy-G, his team & his fans were all afraid of that fight. That was the "fight someone with a pulse" step but Pvssy-G ducked & ducked hard.

https://www.facebook.com/premierboxi...9821466929889/

https://www.boxingscene.com/wbc-prez...happen--133873

I would BET Jermall K.O.'s Pvssy-G then and now.

Tell me this man since you like both Charlo and Canelo...
Why would Canelo duck Charlo if you think that's the case??
What does Charlo bring that Canelo hasn't already seen???