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Lennox retired and Klitschko became the man.
Rest assured, if Wilder had beaten Fury, he'd be calling himself the lineal champion.
Rest assured, if Wilder had beaten Fury, he'd be calling himself the lineal champion.
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#WilderFury is ON❗️
— PBC (@premierboxing) September 22, 2018
WBC Heavyweight World Champion @BronzeBomber announces his Dec. 1 @ShowtimeBoxing PPV title fight vs Lineal Heavyweight Champion @Tyson_Fury.
Stay tuned to PBC for more details. pic.twitter.com/c6MNYHx8d2Comment
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By that logic, the lineal title ended with Gene Tunney over 100 years ago and could never be re-established after his retirement.
Here's the truth:
When a lineal fighter retires the lineage is re-established again by the no.1 and no.2 ranked fighters facing one another and that happened when Vitali beat Corrie Sanders and when Wladimir beat Pulev.
Fury became lineal when he beat Wladimir and has not lost since and didn't retire.
The end.Comment
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Not really true, they’re two different things
The lineal champ is nothing official, just a status when you’re the man who beat the man. That’s all it means.
Ring magazine does not determine anything, it’s just their own personal ratings and opinion. Being the Ring magazine champ really is not anything different to being a BoxRec champ in theory, it’s just it has more value and credibility historically. It’s just holding a belt to say you’re rated number 1 by a magazine.Comment
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I barely noticed the response for this thread today! Thanks for those responses, facts, opinions etc. I'll probably go through them after Muay Thai training
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Fury in his own mind and many media and channels are trying to cash in on it,but the fact is im as lineal as he is bc its an IMAGINARY belt...in other words its only existence is the twilight zone.
The title in itself LINEAGE means passed down and or to represent with physical acknowledgement which WOULD require someone to have a REAL belt to show bc that's whats passed down that would be a lineage so Fury with NO belt CANNOT claim a lineal title he doesn't have one to go on and show only under his fat belly can he claim that in cartoon land but in the real one ,not so much .that title belongs to the guy who defeated Wlad for an actual belt and then that guy....its Ruiz..Comment
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Lineal crash course:
The lineal title is more than the man who beat the man. It is the title that existed before sanction bodies, pre 1910. Prior to sanctioning bodies people didn't get stripped very much and the most likely way to become champion was beating the champion.
When sanctioning bodies started to recognize multiple champions in the same division, like the present Ruiz and Wilder situation, fans became upset and reconstituted the old championship traditions from pre-sanctioning bodies. The original title was simply champion. Not lineal, not universal or undisputed, just champion. no letters no body to acknowledge, just champion.
Well, that's confusing so fans early on in the return on lineal started calling it lineal rather then just champion because man who beat the man is the quickest and easiest explanation in a post sanctioning body era.
Okay, so that kind of explains lineal, but, given it is the olden traditional belt that goes back to Sullivan at least, and can be traced to Figg, 1720, it comes with some oddities present fans seem to forget or be disinterested in. One of those oddities is the current state of Mister Fury's belt.
The first belt ever awarded was made by fans and given to Tom Cribb, champion of England in 1810 when he defended against the champion of America Tom Molyneaux, who received a lesser belt, also made by fans.
In Cribb's case he got King George's backing. Yes, that king George and yes, direct backing. George had Cribb's belt made.
In Molyneux's case many of the English fans felt disgusted by the actions of the English crowd and ref during the fight and felt they'd cheated Moly so they made him a belt as well.
Okay, now for time's sake let's jump way ahead. John L. Sullivan's belt is in some museum or some such similar nonsense at the moment. It was made for him by the fans.
Okay, jump forward again. Marciano is undoubtedly a lineal champion but he was champion when people were still happy with sanctioning bodies. So! No one felt the need to make him a belt because the bodies made him their belts and didn't dispute his reign.
Jump ahead again. In the 70s you'll see the first time folks call for lineal champions again, but, at this time they hadn't settled on the term yet. Ring magazine starts using the term lineal which i believe was coined, well not invented but applied to boxing, by Nat himself, who, if you don't know about him I could go into, but he was an important historian.
So by the 80s and 90s you have lineal champions and people are calling them out as lineal champion, not as often as now but it is an understood term to fans, but no reason to make a belt yet because either the sanctioned champion A or sanctioned champion B is the lineal champion. We don't really have beltless lineals because most champions, like say Ali, wouldn't claim the status without a sanctioning belt. So, at this time lineal is used to distinguish who between the champions is the true or traditional champion.
Alright!
Now, I can explain Mister Fury but I think by now you know where it's going. Tyson Fury has no belt to show you because we have not made him one. We have not made him one because we have forgotten it is our duty. He has more than enough fans to have a belt made by fans and presented to him, with the press there, by the fans. They have failed him. They, who think they know sooo much about lineal, don't even know they're supposed to make the belt.
No, it isn't fake or more fake then a sanctioning belt. It's why Sullivan is considered champion. Yes, there is a physical title, that's why Sullivan had a belt. Yes, Tyson is the lineal or traditional champion, yes he should have a physical title.
Y'all don't know **** about boxing and should let those who do answer questions. If all you know about lineal is what you read in articles and on forums just hush and gimme time to see the post.Comment
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