Gatti v. Vargas: Hall of Fame Worthiness

[BLOODSHED]

I disagree.

He still would have no marquee names to his resume. All that talk of linear champ is jazz.

This is why I made the post. I am in total agreement with you that Vargas may have been the shooting star that burned out faster but that was because he burned brighter than Gatti ever did/could. Vargas was considered a top opponent for DLH, Trinidad, even Mosley. Gatti is a sacraficial lamb for big name fighters like DLH; Mayweather; etc. If Gatti were to win this weekend, he would be closer to an equal with Vargas. Not that Baldomir represents an elite opponent but it gives him the right to claim a linear championship in a weight class.

[amagnin]

I disagree.

He still would have no marquee names to his resume. All that talk of linear champ is jazz.

I see your point, but engage in a hypothetical for me. IF Bernard Hopkins never fought Trinidad or DLH (substitute the #1 contender at MW at the time) and his career played out the same. He would have been a HOF fighter simply for defending the MW belt 20 times even before he beat Tarver. So getting a linear championship is jazz, but holding it means something to me.

[Mr. Ryan]

And what are Gatti's accomplishments and who has he beaten ?

Tracy Patterson
Gabriel Ruelas
Leo Dorin
Jesse James Leija
Micky Ward

No one great, just a bunch of B Level catchers.

[Mr. Ryan]

I see your point, but engage in a hypothetical for me. IF Bernard Hopkins never fought Trinidad or DLH (substitute the #1 contender at MW at the time) and his career played out the same. He would have been a HOF fighter simply for defending the MW belt 20 times even before he beat Tarver. So getting a linear championship is jazz, but holding it means something to me.

No, Hopkins has great talent and dominated the middleweight division like only 2 or three others have been able to do. He cleaned out the division, ducked no one, and fought with wonderful talent. Gatti has never been a dominant champion, never even held a P4P ranking. That you're trying to draw parallels between the two is disheartening.

[amagnin]

No, Hopkins has great talent and dominated the middleweight division like only 2 or three others have been able to do. He cleaned out the division, ducked no one, and fought with wonderful talent. Gatti has never been a dominant champion, never even held a P4P ranking. That you're trying to draw parallels between the two is disheartening.

I wasn't comparing them at all. I was simply saying that holding a linear title over time is an accomplishment. Hopkins is a superb fighter way out of Gatti's league. But I would say that even if he never beat DLH, Trinidad, or Tarver. I was simply using him as an example to say that retaining titles is something I factor into HOF consideration,

[BLOODSHED]

Yes, B level. Ward is C level by the way.

Winky is A level and hall of famer. I rather take a win over Winky ANY day than a win over any of those.

Tracy Patterson
Gabriel Ruelas
Leo Dorin
Jesse James Leija
Micky Ward

No one great, just a bunch of B Level catchers.

[DUPLICITY]

If he beats Baldomir, he may have a case with now winning his third title in his third weight division, and Baldomir is the linear welterweight champion by beating Judah, so technically Gatti will not only be the welterweight champion, but the linear champion.

Vargas has a tough case. He wont make it in. What did he fight....33 times? He has a couple of good wins over good fighters, but lost every single huge fight of his career. Unless he does something great at 160, I dont see him going anywhere near the hall of fame.

But Gatti's three titles aren't legitimate. Everyone famously (and justifiably) called 140 a "paper title". The 147 belt he can pick up by beating Baldomir would be opportunistic, but legitimate.

If Gatti gets in, then vargas would be deserving based on his overall competitiveness with the elite fighters. In a real sense, vargas accomplished more in the sport than Gatti.

11+ rounds with Tito, 10ish rounds with ODLH, first competitive fight w Shane, win over Winky. In fact, Vargas has ONLY lost to HOF -type guys. And he didn't embarrass himself in those fights. This can not be said of Arturo.

Plus, Fernando was a great amateur and made the Olympic team at a very young age.

I say that neither is deserving, but Nando has greater justification than Gatti.