Rewatched Mikey vs Lipinets and scored it a Draw + Spence vs Mikey Breakdown

[TonyGe]

Scoring system:

- the + numbers is my system where i give each punch a diff amount of points
- e.g. jab =1, power shot =2, hard power shot=3, very hard power shot =4, haymaker 5+ depending on its effect
- Most power punches i give 2 points. I gave mikey more 3 pointers than i did for lipinets because they were counters whereas lipinets' was a lot of leads to the body


Mikey vs Lipinets RBR scoring


R1: draw
R2: draw
R3: mikey +2. Mikey finished stronger
R4: lipinets +5 . mikey finished stronger
R5: lipinets +3, mikey lands big shots at very end again
R6: lipinets +20
R7: mikey knockdown. Mikey +5 outside knockdown
R8: draw , mikey tries to step it up last 30 seconds again
R9: mikey +2 from final 10 secs countering and some leading
R10: mikey +11. Much more active from start
R11: lipinets +12.
R12: lipinets +4

5-4-3 lipinets with 1 mikey knockdown

Draw

- Mikey fires back when gets hit but feels the shots
- Not great stamina
- Generally speaking, fighters try to steal rounds when they are worried about opponents power or worried about their own stamina, and feel skill difference is small


R6 review:


- There too long for counter
- Not agile enough
- Too defensive when lipinets throws
- Loads up to get power from ground too much, elite opponent would be able to anticipate shot coming

Spence vs peterson

- Very good power, defense, chin, punch variety, output, accuracy, awareness, athleticism elite
- R7: peterson upperbody and head movement preventing getting hit. Mikey does not have this.
- Peterson quit because of the beating

Mikey garcia vs robert easter

- Mikey not agile enough
- will punch at your guard, your arms
- Much higher output than in lipinets fight - probably because was dictacting pace which is less tiring, able to fight in own rhythm , less worried about easter's power and skill, at lighter weight
- Powerful
- Good technique, uses ground to generate power
- Very relaxed
- great punch variety
- fast
- Very aware
- very mentally switched on , good combinations and feints when able to dictate
- can throw quick right hands where he does not load up

Spence vs brook

Spence extremely determined and aggressive
Brook punches very hard to read
Spence stamina unreal
Punches in combination
Accurate
Good at prevent holding on inside
Brook extremely durable
Can be hit with body shots if you punch in combination to head and finish to body because of his high guard
Tap jab designed to stop opponent moving when opponent touches ropes

Mikey vs salido

Beat salido up but salido just clinched on inside

Mikey strategy

- Judging by interviews, is going to try and push spence back and throw body shots at times. And other times going to try to move and time spence with counters


Final thoughts

- Mikey inside game non-existent. Spence inside game best in the game
- Mikey delusional
- Brother and father have to seem confident now the fight got made in order to support Mikey
- Mikey showed he was affected by body shots from Lipinets. Very subtle but i could notice it
- If mikey can be agile like he was at lower weights he can prolong the fight but spence stamina advantage will tell and stop him eventually
- But i see Spence getting to Mikey early and Mikey trying to fight back and getting caught and getting Ko'ed within 6 rounds.
- Added weight will hurt Mikey agility and stamina wise.
- Mikey has small lapses , which a relentless fighter like Spence can take advantage of. Mikey is a better fighter when he can fight at his rhythm, I see signs of aging and view him as a declining fighter.
- Spence extremely impressive. Watching him back has made me put him extremely high in my p4p list in which main criteria being how unbeatable i think the fighter is:

1. Inoue
2. Spence
3. Crawford
4. Lomachenko
5. Canelo
6. GGG
7. Usyk
8. Jacobs
9. Gervonta
10. Estrada

Final prediction: Spence KO r4. not a hard prediction, everyone on nsb is picking the same but since i researched because I am betting on the fight I thought I would post my breakdown.

Its your scoring system but the points ratings for jabs vs power shots is IMO out of wack. There are levels to jabs just as there is with power punches. If a jab confuses an opponent or makes him back off its just as effective as a hard power shot. Most good boxers have an effective jab. Paulie could wind up and hammer an opponent with his best right hand and nothing happens. Charlo or Golovkin can knock a guy down or stun him with a jab. Larry Holmes used his jab to punish his opponents keep them off balance and disrupt their rhythm. The jab if it's effective is one of the most important punches in boxing. There is no way that all jabs can be relegated to one point.

[Citizen Koba]

Only one person I seen ever come up with an alternative that was legit, he name was ***** he was a admin on Sweetboxing.com I dont remember it anymore but I remember thinking that it was legit and I would support it, it wasnt a 10 point must system anymore but it was pased of 10 points being the max.

Im not knocking OP but its not really a great way to score fights. Also his motives can be suspect (not saying they are) but can be, he did not take into account, ring generalship, effective aggressive etc, he basically said who compubox said threw the most power punches won, just did it in a long thought out fancy way.

Yeah - now that is a worthy discussion - again not saying the TSs system is good or bad, but MUST seems to me to be hopelessly anachronistic and lacking in nuance... at the very least there should be more willingness to use scores other than the basic 10 - 9 and 1 per KD regardless of the exact circumstance.

Paradoxically Must manages (as currently used) to be both to simple and too complex. In attempting to codify the exact scoring of say a KD regardless of whether it's of the 'slightly off balance / slip' variety or the 'Bambi on ice / stanky leg' variety and equally just giving a 1 point edge to the round winner whether it's a domination or the narrowest edge it very often fails to capture the action in the ring. Better to either just take a binary system (1/0 for the winner / loser taking into account the effects of any KDs) or to have a nuanced points system like 1 - 5 to each fighter depending on how they did or how dominant they were, with KDs either scoring extra or included and scored on discretion.

[.!WAR MIKEY!.]

Yeah - now that is a worthy discussion - again not saying the TSs system is good or bad, but MUST seems to me to be hopelessly anachronistic and lacking in nuance... at the very least there should be more willingness to use scores other than the basic 10 - 9 and 1 per KD regardless of the exact circumstance.

Paradoxically Must manages (as currently used) to be both to simple and too complex. In attempting to codify the exact scoring of say a KD regardless of whether it's of the 'slightly off balance / slip' variety or the 'Bambi on ice / stanky leg' variety and equally just giving a 1 point edge to the round winner whether it's a domination or the narrowest edge it very often fails to capture the action in the ring. Better to either just take a binary system (1/0 for the winner / loser taking into account the effects of any KDs) or to have a nuanced points system like 1 - 5 to each fighter depending on how they did or how dominant they were, with KDs either scoring extra or included and scored on discretion.

yup the problem with boxing is that its so subjective.

take for instance if we assign different values for different severity of KD's, now that opens up the can of worms to a larger degree than just the 1 point, because now theirs MORE room for subjectivity. Take for instance OP statements (see below) imagine if that was a KD we was talking about, now imagine some crooked judges or incompetent judges can always use that excuse to take away more points from a fighter and put him way behind the fight. "its wasnt a flash knocked down, he was really hurt it was VERY SUBTLE BUT I COULD NOTICE IT"

I honestly think the system we have now is the best it can get without reaping more negative effects than positive. (the point of diminishing returns if you will)

- Mikey showed he was affected by body shots from Lipinets. Very subtle but i could notice it
-

[Citizen Koba]

yup the problem with boxing is that its so subjective.

take for instance if we assign different values for different severity of KD's, now that opens up the can of worms to a larger degree than just the 1 point, because now theirs MORE room for subjectivity. Take for instance OP statements (see below) imagine if that was a KD we was talking about, now imagine some crooked judges or incompetent judges can always use that excuse to take away more points from a fighter and put him way behind the fight. "its wasnt a flash knocked down, he was really hurt it was VERY SUBTLE BUT I COULD NOTICE IT"

I honestly think the system we have now is the best it can get without reaping more negative effects than positive. (the point of diminishing returns if you will)

I hear you loud and clear, man - if anything I lean towards a simple 1/0 system of the two, but I've got a keen interest in changing other aspects too which would make a 1 - 5 system more plausible... firstly using 5 judges picked randomly from an approved pool close to the fight date (ideally even on fight day though I can see this as being problematic logistically) and discarding the two outlying scores. Instant replay is a necessity to my mind, whatever other changes are made. I'm also a big advocate of looking into means of crowd sourced scoring - the technology is there already and the statistical tools to largely eliminate or at least mitigate bias are well understood... I know that boxing hardcore dudes are deeply sceptical of the pubic's knowledge, but I always like to bear in mind that at the end of the day it's a sport paid for and enjoyed by the people - if the watching public genuinely see one guy winning and the boxing cognoscenti see the other guy then I'd say it's probably the boxing nerds who need to re-adjust their thinking.

Anyways, food for thought either way - it's really pie-in-the-sky stuff the cos I can't see any major changes coming any time soon -especially in a sport as tradition-bound as boxing, but it never hurts to throw out a few ideas.