Comments Thread For: Ward: Kovalev Not Same Fighter, But He'll Be Hard To Deal With

[Boxing_1013]

U should add that quote to your profile, since your the one who created it, lol. Just make sure u assign your own sig to it.

Speaking of which, isn’t that sig cooked to a crisp after I took a flamethrower to it about 3 or 4 different times ?
Life is just full of dilemmas.

Here’s what we’ll do. Say something blatantly racist, I’ll then report you to get u deactivated. After that, sign back up, but let’s make sure this time u use a sig specifically customized to succinctly describe your personal strengths and self-worth.

I’ve chosen “SMEGMA” for you.
It means d.ck cheese in case u were wondering. It arises when someone doesn’t wash their ***** for long periods of time and a bacterial cheese like substance starts to accumulate. Good luck, I think you’ll do well with this one !

I'm going to report this, this is laced with racial slurs as are most of your other posts.

[rickJen]

Kovalev hard to deal with?
I don't remember him demanding huge money
or pricing himself out.

[Granath]

Anyway as I have said I have actually watched most of Ward's fights and I would disagree with the notions that he won the Barrera and Bika fights handily.

I wish you wouldn't have said that. That just goes to show you don't know a damn thing about the sport. Your opinion might be forgiven if it were just ignorance. But now we all know it's just due to stupidity

To quote the cards from the first Kovalev fight as though Ward deserved to win 17/18 rounds on the judges' cards over the last 6 rounds just shows your opinion on boxing is irrelevant. If the whole fight went the way of those last 6 rounds, the fight should have been a 7-5 fight either way. You are saying Ward should have won 12-0 twice and 11-1 or 10-2 on the other card. You are just not a serious person and anyone touting the cards in the Kov fight is not anyone I take seriously.

Nope, I said no such thing. The Judges thought so and thank you for falling into the trap. In my experience Judges get things wrong all too often but they rarely unanimously get things wrong. Bad judging is usually inconsistent judging. Yet you argue that there has been bad judging in at least 3 fights that were remarkably consistent on the various judges' scorecards. So you assert that you know better than at least 9 judges who all vote similarly to one another. What's more likely, at least 9 judges and Compubox all getting it wrong or that some random fool with a grudge on the internet doesn't know how to score a fight? I'll take the latter for $600, Alex.

And I certainly don't take seriously the boxing analysis of someone who touts scorecards without having watched a fight himself.

And again you so easily slip up. I purposely never mentioned whether I saw those fights or not and you made another hasty assumption. That's another mark of an uninformed mind. It doesn't matter if I say I watched the fights or not because if I did it wouldn't change your mind in the least and why debate over something you couldn't possibly know anyway? It's a red herring in an effort to try to steer the conversation away from your inane statements. Nice try, but it won't work. But if you're truly and honestly curious here's a hint, junior. I appreciate a tactical fighter and Ward is a very tactical fighter.

Ward is undefeated and will go down in history as an ATG. If you want to pick apart his record feel free to do so but don't just pull falsehoods out of your ass. There is no controversy. Ward was 115-5 in the amateur and supposedly hasn't lost a fight in the ring since he was 13 (there was one medical suspension I think). He won an Olympic Gold metal. 2 time national champ. And undefeated as a pro with belts in 2 weight classes. 20 years without a loss. You don't win all that via smoke and mirrors.

Opinions are like a$$sholes. Everyone has one. It's just that yours is so far-fetched that it's impossible to respect. But do let us know all about that conspiracy theory between the judges, announcers, CompuBox and aliens. Inquiring minds want to know.

[Boxing_1013]

We don't disagree on the facts. The difference between you and I is that I cited all of my opinions. For instance you keep talking about the Rodriguez fight. The very one that Rodriguez was also deducted two points and was the clear instigator yet you want to try to use that as proof. Sorry, reacting to someone who is fighting dirty isn't a too big of a sin in my book and it proves nothing. Did you watch the video? Did you get the memo?

Bika lost by 8, 8 and 12 points on the cards. If there's a controversy it's only in your mind because now you've blown it up into a conspiracy. So now, not only were all 3 judges corrupt but now you indicated that CompuBox is in on it because "Bika landed a lot more". And heck, an entirely different set of judges must have been bought off for the Barrera fight since Ward won by 9, 9, 10 points on the cards. Were aliens and the CIA involved too? How deep does the Rabbit Hole go? Inquiring minds want to know!

Again, who gives a rat's butt about Dawson's weight? What does that have to do with Ward? Dawson took the fight and got KTFO. Case closed.

You used the term controversial so don't walk back from it now. There was nothing controversial about any of those fights and its on you to show it. Just repeating it doesn't make it any more true. That it was controversial is an opinion and one, that in my book, isn't supportable. Nor does having points deducted in a couple of fights make someone a dirty fighter. Oh heavens forbid!

And for all your bluster one thing remains: Ward won all of those fights handily. It doesn't matter if he had "special moments" (your words, not mine). Flash is nice but isn't necessarily a mark of genius. It was in RJJ. It wasn't with Usman Ahmed (look it up). Ward didn't need "special moments" to uncover his opponents weaknesses, exploit them and break them into little pieces. He did it against every guy you mentioned. He did it against Kovalev in the first fight, losing the early rounds but winning all of the last six rounds on two scorecards, and five of six on a third. He figured it out, made adjustments and started winning (and then KO'd him the 2nd fight). Like it or not, that's the historical record.

Ward may not be flashy but his boxing IQ is pretty much off the charts. That's why he was a great boxer. He didn't need to be flashy, he just needed to figure out how to win and he did that every...single...time. That you need "special moments" is your problem, not his. It just shows that you have something new to consider about this sport.

PS - when you get off the mat, fight someone in your own weight class. You've moved up to one you can't compete in.

In this part you really embarrass yourself:

For a boxing fan to 1) dismiss the fact that a home fighter often gets favorable judging; 2) neglect to actually watch fights they comment on 3) and then tout the results of these fights, and then dismiss any critique of the official scoring or storyline is just not a very bright person. Furthermore to not take into account the circumstances surrounding those fights and consider how those circumstances could have, and almost certainly did, play a role in the judging is very un-intelligent.

Bika, as a late replacement, fought Ward in the middle of the Super 6 tournament. Ward was still in the tourney, and was looking towards a big time fight against who ever came out on the other side in the final. There was NO WAY Bika was getting a fair shake in that circumstance, especially in Oakland. There was no incentive to give Bika any rounds, and every incentive to make sure Ward won. Bika, officially, by Compubox, outthrew Ward by 214 punches, throwing over 50% more. Ward somehow landed 31 more punches though, even though I saw nothing of the sort when I watched the fight. When the scores were announced I honestly couldn't believe that they were real. To dismiss the circumstances surrounding a fight like this or to not be able to understand this demonstrates unfortunately that you don't have the proper acumen to analyze things.

Similarly, Barrera fought Ward, in Oakland, one the 3 fight deal Ward had before fighting Kov. There was no way Barrera would get a fair shake, in Oakland, with the possibility of jeopardizing the lucrative Kovalev fight(s). Pretty obvious stuff there. Again anyone who is touting Ward's dominance in those fights either hasn't watched them, or has some serious bias in trying to make Ward out to be a better fighter than he is. Note how my critiques of Ward are specific and not perhaps what one would think I would critique - I don't take shots at his win against Froch, I thought he won. Probably 7-5 as two of the judges had it. But nonetheless I thought he won. But again anyone hyping up his performance in the Bika and Barrera fights is just not a serious person.

[Granath]

watch the fight. What do you think about Round 1?

Pretty clear round for Bika. But I'm sure you'll find a way to give to your hero. Btw - turn the sound off when you watch, helps to score accurately.

Watch is again. Bika lands nothing clean except a head butt. Virtually every punch is off Wards gloves, arms, elbows or slips past his ears. The #1 scoring criteria is clean, effective punching. Wild misses don't score points. Aggression doesn't matter unless it's effective. If wild punches and stalking won rounds Wilder would have beaten Fury on a shutout.

Could I see that round going to Bika? Yep. Could I see it going to Ward? Yep. How would I have scored it? Even. Also, Ward got stronger and better as that fight went on so if your best "evidence" is a round in which Bika doesn't really land a good punch you got nothing.

[jmrf4435]

I wish you wouldn't have said that. That just goes to show you don't know a damn thing about the sport. Your opinion might be forgiven if it were just ignorance. But now we all know it's just due to stupidity



Nope, I said no such thing. The Judges thought so and thank you for falling into the trap. In my experience Judges get things wrong all too often but they rarely unanimously get things wrong. Bad judging is usually inconsistent judging. Yet you argue that there has been bad judging in at least 3 fights that were remarkably consistent on the various judges' scorecards. So you assert that you know better than at least 9 judges who all vote similarly to one another. What's more likely, at least 9 judges and Compubox all getting it wrong or that some random fool with a grudge on the internet doesn't know how to score a fight? I'll take the latter for $600, Alex.



And again you so easily slip up. I purposely never mentioned whether I saw those fights or not and you made another hasty assumption. That's another mark of an uninformed mind. It doesn't matter if I say I watched the fights or not because if I did it wouldn't change your mind in the least and why debate over something you couldn't possibly know anyway? It's a red herring in an effort to try to steer the conversation away from your inane statements. Nice try, but it won't work. But if you're truly and honestly curious here's a hint, junior. I appreciate a tactical fighter and Ward is a very tactical fighter.

Ward is undefeated and will go down in history as an ATG. If you want to pick apart his record feel free to do so but don't just pull falsehoods out of your ass. There is no controversy. Ward was 115-5 in the amateur and supposedly hasn't lost a fight in the ring since he was 13 (there was one medical suspension I think). He won an Olympic Gold metal. 2 time national champ. And undefeated as a pro with belts in 2 weight classes. 20 years without a loss. You don't win all that via smoke and mirrors.

Opinions are like a$$sholes. Everyone has one. It's just that yours is so far-fetched that it's impossible to respect. But do let us know all about that conspiracy theory between the judges, announcers, CompuBox and aliens. Inquiring minds want to know.

Most boxing analysts will agree BUT. They will be hesitant.

Here are my points:

Andre Ward never left his backyard. He clearly had refs helping him with his headbutting, and continuous low blows.

He clearly lost the first fight to Kovalev, a clear loss. This also plays into his home court advantage he has had his entire career, Judges were bought.

There is a youtube video of A dude counting ward headbutting mikkel kessler 88 times in their super 6 fight. 88 TIMES. He basically destroyed kesslers eyes with headbutss.

The dude would have losses on his record if he went out from under daddy haymon and jay z's skirt.

You know this. He's a good boxer but if you lookd closely he's abit overrated.

[Granath]

In this part you really embarrass yourself:

For a boxing fan to 1) dismiss the fact that a home fighter often gets favorable judging; 2) neglect to actually watch fights they comment on 3) and then tout the results of these fights, and then dismiss any critique of the official scoring or storyline is just not a very bright person. Furthermore to not take into account the circumstances surrounding those fights and consider how those circumstances could have, and almost certainly did, play a role in the judging is very un-intelligent.

Bika, as a late replacement, fought Ward in the middle of the Super 6 tournament. Ward was still in the tourney, and was looking towards a big time fight against who ever came out on the other side in the final. There was NO WAY Bika was getting a fair shake in that circumstance, especially in Oakland. There was no incentive to give Bika any rounds, and every incentive to make sure Ward won. Bika, officially, by Compubox, outthrew Ward by 214 punches, throwing over 50% more. Ward somehow landed 31 more punches though, even though I saw nothing of the sort when I watched the fight. When the scores were announced I honestly couldn't believe that they were real. To dismiss the circumstances surrounding a fight like this or to not be able to understand this demonstrates unfortunately that you don't have the proper acumen to analyze things.

Similarly, Barrera fought Ward, in Oakland, one the 3 fight deal Ward had before fighting Kov. There was no way Barrera would get a fair shake, in Oakland, with the possibility of jeopardizing the lucrative Kovalev fight(s). Pretty obvious stuff there. Again anyone who is touting Ward's dominance in those fights either hasn't watched them, or has some serious bias in trying to make Ward out to be a better fighter than he is. Note how my critiques of Ward are specific and not perhaps what one would think I would critique - I don't take shots at his win against Froch, I thought he won. Probably 7-5 as two of the judges had it. But nonetheless I thought he won. But again anyone hyping up his performance in the Bika and Barrera fights is just not a serious person.

You keep repeating the same thing without any facts. Repeating it ad nauseam doesn't make it any more true. Even my grandkids know that and they are 4.

If you want to make a point, start by trying to explain how Barrera and Bika should have won fights against Ward in which they connected on 55 and 34 fewer punches respectively and lost both the jabs and power punches in both fights even though they threw far more leather. Defense is part of judging when you connect after making your guy miss and Ward did that beautifully in both fights.

[Boxing_1013]

I wish you wouldn't have said that. That just goes to show you don't know a damn thing about the sport. Your opinion might be forgiven if it were just ignorance. But now we all know it's just due to stupidity



Nope, I said no such thing. The Judges thought so and thank you for falling into the trap. In my experience Judges get things wrong all too often but they rarely unanimously get things wrong. Bad judging is usually inconsistent judging. Yet you argue that there has been bad judging in at least 3 fights that were remarkably consistent on the various judges' scorecards. So you assert that you know better than at least 9 judges who all vote similarly to one another. What's more likely, at least 9 judges and Compubox all getting it wrong or that some random fool with a grudge on the internet doesn't know how to score a fight? I'll take the latter for $600, Alex.



And again you so easily slip up. I purposely never mentioned whether I saw those fights or not and you made another hasty assumption. That's another mark of an uninformed mind. It doesn't matter if I say I watched the fights or not because if I did it wouldn't change your mind in the least and why debate over something you couldn't possibly know anyway? It's a red herring in an effort to try to steer the conversation away from your inane statements. Nice try, but it won't work. But if you're truly and honestly curious here's a hint, junior. I appreciate a tactical fighter and Ward is a very tactical fighter.

Ward is undefeated and will go down in history as an ATG. If you want to pick apart his record feel free to do so but don't just pull falsehoods out of your ass. There is no controversy. Ward was 115-5 in the amateur and supposedly hasn't lost a fight in the ring since he was 13 (there was one medical suspension I think). He won an Olympic Gold metal. 2 time national champ. And undefeated as a pro with belts in 2 weight classes. 20 years without a loss. You don't win all that via smoke and mirrors.

Opinions are like a$$sholes. Everyone has one. It's just that yours is so far-fetched that it's impossible to respect. But do let us know all about that conspiracy theory between the judges, announcers, CompuBox and aliens. Inquiring minds want to know.

Man you're a weird guy and you honestly don't even make a ton of sense. I know you haven't watched the Bika and Barrera fights, I can tell by the way you respond. So your fan-boying of Ward and touting his performance in those fights, and then insulting someone who has watched them and takes issue with the judging, is meaningless to me and should be meaningless to anyone.

And again - if you are unable to realize that an American fighter, fighting on home soil, is more likely to get rounds against a couple of nobodies from Cameroon or Cuba, I don't think there is much that can be done for you.

All the money in boxing is in the US UK and Mexico. As a result fighters from these countries tend to get most of the hype, because they can generate the fan base to generate the revenue. Ward did have a special amateur career and I can't speak for his performance as an amateur. I did watch one of his fights even there and I saw nothing dominant from him. A lot of holding and not a lot of separation as far as boxing goes.
But as a pro he fought all of his fights on home soil. If he fought Bika in Russia with neutral judges I don't think he would have won, probably would have been a draw or a loss.

But anyone who saw anything special from him against any big name that he fought is either 1) not knowledgeable about boxing 2) disingenuous or 3) has a vested interest in trying to make him into something he isn't.

You honestly come across as the 1st kind to be honest. I just don't think you really know much about boxing but you want to act like you do. That's all well and good but your opinion on anything, and especially boxing is irrelevant to me.

[Boxing_1013]

Watch is again. Bika lands nothing clean except a head butt. Virtually every punch is off Wards gloves, arms, elbows or slips past his ears. The #1 scoring criteria is clean, effective punching. Wild misses don't score points. Aggression doesn't matter unless it's effective. If wild punches and stalking won rounds Wilder would have beaten Fury on a shutout.

Could I see that round going to Bika? Yep. Could I see it going to Ward? Yep. How would I have scored it? Even. Also, Ward got stronger and better as that fight went on so if your best "evidence" is a round in which Bika doesn't really land a good punch you got nothing.

You watched it for the first time and you know it lol. Bika landed a few pretty clean shots in the first 20 seconds lol. Anyway I don't really care about your opinion. But yeah actually watch that fight and score it for yourself and see if it changes your mind on Ward. Peace.

[Boxing_1013]

Most boxing analysts will agree BUT. They will be hesitant.

Here are my points:

Andre Ward never left his backyard. He clearly had refs helping him with his headbutting, and continuous low blows.

He clearly lost the first fight to Kovalev, a clear loss. This also plays into his home court advantage he has had his entire career, Judges were bought.

There is a youtube video of A dude counting ward headbutting mikkel kessler 88 times in their super 6 fight. 88 TIMES. He basically destroyed kesslers eyes with headbutss.

The dude would have losses on his record if he went out from under daddy haymon and jay z's skirt.

You know this. He's a good boxer but if you lookd closely he's abit overrated.

The weird thing is that it is so obvious to many and most of the points made about Ward are pretty much backed in fact.

But his supporters just refuse to listen to anything. I honestly suspect that many of them have not actually watched most of his fights and have a special interest in making him out to be something that he isn't, because he looks like them and they can identify with him.

But your points are sound, good post.