The "tainted Mexican beef" excuse is plausible

[hugh grant]

He probably was cheating. Now it seems as if he has nothing to lose and is going a bit gung ho about his career in stepping up divisions, fighting GGG and Kovalev. Throwing caution to the wind but of course with a CW to get advantage.

[ShoulderRoll]

Personally Mexico China and other countries that can't control what is in their meat supply should be banned from international competition.

Francisco Vargas tested positive for zilpaterol. Which happens to be legal to use on cattle in the US and Canada as well.

Pharmaceutical giant Merck created the drug and of course uses it's deep pockets to make sure it gets government approval and pushes for it to be as widely used as possible.

So what we are seeing here is a legitimate problem with the meat supply in several countries. Caused by the greed of Big Pharma and others.

[Citizen Koba]

Francisco Vargas tested positive for zilpaterol. Which happens to be legal to use on cattle in the US and Canada as well.

Pharmaceutical giant Merck created the drug and of course uses it's deep pockets to make sure it gets government approval and pushes for it to be as widely used as possible.

So what we are seeing here is a legitimate problem with the meat supply in several countries. Caused by the greed of Big Pharma and others.

Big pharma and the politicians who promote their interests or take the coin to look the other way.

Mmm. Now this is intersting. Found this on B-agonists:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5510757/

And then I found this, which is one I ain't seen before on Clenbuterol contamination in China:

https://www.doping.nl/media/kb/5958/...0al%202012.pdf

The findings are intersting and include some of the observations I've tried to convey in other posts on here. Two thing worth noting are firstly that readings were extremely common even given the small sample size (of mainly visitors to China with a few residents) some 79% tested positive - which ain't massively out of line with the U17 football teams visiting Mexico (over 52% tested positive and 30% of meat samples in the team hotels tested positive) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23559541..


And secondly that the vast majority of positives from presumed meat contamination are considerably lower in concentration (by orders of magnitude) than the thresholds recently set by WADA and the WBC. Now this ain't necessarily bad practice - as I've tried to stress Clenbuterol is eliminated so the urinary concentration will be reduced expontentially over time... in short we can't know how high the concentrations might have been had the subjects been tested immediately after eating the meat, but the Chinese contaminations study does at least give us some figures to work with - even though if I was being really critical I'd be bringing up a number of issues with their methodology.

Only few data are available on the urinary excretion ofclenbuterol in humans. Yamamotoet al. investigated thecumulative urinary excretion of clenbuterol after a single doseof 20mg.[17]During thefirst 24 h, a mean cumulative urinaryexcretion of 15.1% was reported. Considering a common dailyurine volume of two litres, a corresponding theoretic urinaryconcentration of 1.5 ng/ml can be calculated. According toliterature the concentrations in meat (muscle) after administrationof typical doses of 20mg/kg clenbuterol to pigs yielded maximum concentrations of 4.4 to 6.1mg/kg.[8,18]Assuming a consumption of300 g of contaminated meat (muscle), these amounts would resultin an intake of 1.3–1.9mg of clenbuterol, which is approx. one-tenthof a typical therapeutic single dose of 20mg used in man. Based on this data, maximum urinary concentrations are supposed to range between 100 and 150 pg/ml. However, the misuse of clenbutero lfor livestock is not controlled and applied doses are expectedto be much higher, as demonstrated by the large number ofclenbuterol poisonings.[5–7]The results obtained within thepresent study with maximum concentrations of 50.5pg/ml are difficult to compare, since the amount of clenbuterol ingested was unknown

In short the problem is very widespread in at least certain parts of both countries.

Just for reference the table 2 included in the study includes a Chinese native who had the highest urinary concentration of 50pg/ml but had the vast majority of subjects pissing under 10pg/ml. The Mexican study yielded urine concentration between 1pg/ml and 1556pg/ml though the 'large majority' (from another source - I ain't paying the $7 for 48hr access to the full text) fell under 200pg/ml though of course since this was a study of athletes (footballers) it's not beyong the realm of possibility that some of these results were in fact the result of PED use rather than contamination.

I doubt that's even slightly clarified anything for anyone, but I thought I'd share... to conclude, yes meat contamination is widespread in both Mexico and China but most often would give very substantially lower reading than the 5000pg/ml set by WADA (or indeed the 600-800pg/ml pissed by Canelo) unless you're eating an awful lot of badly contaminated meat frequently or are very unlucky. By contrast a single therapeutic (PED) dose of 20mg (this 20mg figure is actually fairly low I think, higher doses are often used as a PED) could be expected to yield a urinary concentration of 1500pg/ml the next day - or 750pg/ml 36 hours later - on their admittedly rather shaky (to my eye) calculations.

[Thuglife Nelo]

By contrast a single therapeutic (PED) dose of 20mg could be expected to yield a urinary concentration of 1500pg/ml the next day on their admittedly rather shaky (to my eye) calculations.

1200 picograms was Francisco Vargas.

But the funny thing was that in Contador’s case there was still a no tolerance policy for Clen, “strict liability,” and Contador was going against various nations wanting him stripped! What others don’t know is that Contador had PED occurrences before his Clen scandal so it as hard to give him benefit of doubt...

Also, Clen users in gyms go through a heavy regimen of Clen, and pill dosage ideally increases and then steadily decreases.

[Citizen Koba]

1200 picograms was Francisco Vargas.

But the funny thing was that in Contador’s case there was still a no tolerance policy for Clen, “strict liability,” and Contador was going against various nations wanting him stripped! What others don’t know is that Contador had PED occurrences before his Clen scandal so it as hard to give him benefit of doubt...

Also, Clen users in gyms go through a heavy regimen of Clen, and pill dosage ideally increases and then steadily decreases.

Yeah for sure the Vargas case wasn't treated in accordence with the policy that exosted then or evn with the slightly looser 1ng/ml unofficial threshold guidelines introduced later. Who knows? Maybe they just thought no-one would give a fuck. TBH this would almost certainly never have attracted the attention it had if it'd been a less high profile fighter than Canelo who popped.

And yeah... I did look it up at one point and PED dosing regimes would firstly be considerably higher than the 20mg dose suggested there (though would possibly taper down), and there would be a cumulative effect from daily usage raising the urinary concentration after a few days to something like twice that which would result from a single dose.

Also I can't square the figures they've used with the suggested figure of 9ng/ml that Dr Boer or Boem or whoever (the dude on your video clip)said would result peeing after a minimum effective PED dose. As with most of the literature on this matter there's a mass of poorly explained inconsistencies.

[Abby26]

its no use tryg to explain science to americans. americans dont believe in science and according to a recent study 92% of americans believe in an old man in the clouds that listens to their prayers. its the only develop country who still believes on this stupidity. so tryg to explain science to them u might as well talk to the wall.

[Thuglife Nelo]

and there would be a cumulative effect from daily usage raising the urinary concentration .

Fo’sho. From what I recall Clen regimens are like starting doses of 80mg a day. Increases after a week and so on and then you decrease. Imagine checking the levels of those heads after a complete regimen. It’s nowhere near picograms...

[QueensburyRules]

He probably was cheating.

- -U proven dummy!

[TonyGe]

you know him? didn't he knock out the teeth of solis and pretend it was his brother? maybe the meat made him do it.

he did better after getting caught doing peds? doesnt that bolster the he did ped argument? the only time we know for sure that he was on peds is before the second fight. we dont know if he did them before the first fight although its probable. those ped gains earned during the off season dont just vanish and he obviously upped his awareness after getting caught

He is a partner in a charity that's accused of money laundering. One of his best friends is the biggest pimp in Mexico.

[TonyGe]

Francisco Vargas tested positive for zilpaterol. Which happens to be legal to use on cattle in the US and Canada as well.

Pharmaceutical giant Merck created the drug and of course uses it's deep pockets to make sure it gets government approval and pushes for it to be as widely used as possible.

So what we are seeing here is a legitimate problem with the meat supply in several countries. Caused by the greed of Big Pharma and others.

It's banned in Mexico by the way so why do they have a problem. It's caused by the corruption or lack of will in Mexico. They could stop this in less than a year if they wanted to.