Comments Thread For: Top Rank Prez: Berchelt-Vargas Winner in Line For Lomachenko

[bigdunny1]

OK so this makes sense now. Late last year there were tons or reports that Vargas was fighting Machado especially after he pulled out a WBC Eliminator with Eduardo Hernandez for a mandatory title shot rematch with Berchelt. Then weeks ago it's announced that Machado is fighting Cancio instead. Vargas pulled out that fight and is getting a direct rematch with Berchelt. I think Berchelt is a horrible style matchup for Vargas I see him losing again but he is likely getting a career payday and more then he would of gotten to fight Machado. I can't say he is ducking Machado, Berchelt is higher rated and brings more money to the table.

Sucks for Machado because a month ago everyone was saying Vargas was a done deal and a great fight for him now he has to take a stay busy fight and back to waiting to land a big name. It's a shame the WBA doesn't mandate Tank to fight him especially after they screwed him by downgrading his status as super champ to regular champ when he knocked out the real champ.

[PrBoxing88]

OK so this makes sense now. Late last year there were tons or reports that Vargas was fighting Machado especially after he pulled out a WBC Eliminator with Eduardo Hernandez for a mandatory title shot rematch with Berchelt. Then weeks ago it's announced that Machado is fighting Cancio instead. Vargas pulled out that fight and is getting a direct rematch with Berchelt. I think Berchelt is a horrible style matchup for Vargas I see him losing again but he is likely getting a career payday and more then he would of gotten to fight Machado. I can't say he is ducking Machado, Berchelt is higher rated and brings more money to the table.

Sucks for Machado because a month ago everyone was saying Vargas was a done deal and a great fight for him now he has to take a stay busy fight and back to waiting to land a big name. It's a shame the WBA doesn't mandate Tank to fight him especially after they screwed him by downgrading his status as super champ to regular champ when he knocked out the real champ.

Maybe we get a Bercherlt vs Machado later this year? Who knows.....

[The3]

If Lomachenko is not holding all 5 belts at 135 in 2019 he wasted his year

[Boxing Logic]

Yeah I saw that from Boxing Logic in this thread and ignored it. I see that a lot.

If you notice, boxers outside of North American are usually called "small" for their weight class and the North Americans are always "big" or "weight cheats" or something else with certain guys.

When I see posts like that I just assume the poster is either not a serious fan, has an agenda using coded language, or senses their guy might lose and is creating a narrative they can go back to if they lose.

Different nations have different training styles and different approaches to sports science and dieting and weight cutting and so on. Why are you framing it that these groups are usually "called" so and so? It's just a fact, at least based on the numbers reported/given, that Loma, GGG, Pacquiao, even Kovalev it seems in many matchups, fight much closer to their natural weight than many of the top American/Mexican boxers of this era (Spence, Hurd, Jermall Charlo, Mikey Garcia, etc).

But you will notice, no one talks about Gvozdyk or Usyk being small for their weight classes. That's because they're not, although Gvozdyk's fight night weight that I previously saw, which I believe was either 184 or 186, is a far cry from the highest I've seen at light heavyweight, which was Marcus Browne's 192.

So once again, the biggest guy at the weight, fight night, is an American, making even big light heavyweights like Gvozdyk look average or small for the division. You're telling me that's "Boxing Logic's" fault? I'm not allowed to talk facts anymore because the facts aren't politically correct or whatever?

See, I would actually like to know! I would actually like to know how weight bullying suddenly got so popular in boxing, and why American and Mexican stars seem better at the "tactic," or seem to do it more, than boxers from other parts of the world. That's one of the main reasons I bring it up so often is curiosity, because curiosity leads to knowledge. But with you it's like you just want to blame the people who bring it up, act like we're being unfair, and then shut the whole topic down or blow past it. Aren't you also curious?

Anyway, Gvozdyk is not a small light heavyweight, except next to Browne. Bivol is, Kovalev somewhat is, Beterbiev is definitely not. So two of the euros are, two aren't. Fair enough? Usyk was not a small cruiserweight, he was a big cruiserweight. Fair enough? But I can't call him a weight bully because I've never once seen his fight night weight listed or reported. You can blame me if you want but I am actually one of the only people who continues to request that fight night weigh-ins be mandatory, and that releasing the info publicly is a mandated part of every fight contract. If the sport had listened to me on that, we wouldn't have this problem anymore where some fighters have their numbers publicly available, some don't, and then only the fighters who have it publicly available either get credit for being small at their weight, or get criticized for being a weight bully, while the ones who don't we just have to guess about basically. Usyk to me looks a healthy average 210 lbs in the ring at cruiser, a far cry from the weight bullies rehydrating 20 lbs overnight, but a good sized long strong cruiserweight. Definitely not small.

So for you to frame it like euros get called small and given more credit, while American boxers don't, is totally false. Small boxers get credit for being small, period. Chocolatito is from Nicaragua, he was small for 115 and got credit for that. Rigo got credit for being smaller than Nonito Donaire when they fought. Even vs Loma, despite size not being the main differentiator in the ring, Rigo got credit for being smaller, and he's from Cuba not Europe. So just stop man you are misrepresenting my opinions and mischaracterizing them, and that's not right or fair.

If there's a case where I mischaracterize a specific boxers size, or where I argue it's relevant in cases where it's not, then by all means, address my argument specifically, and make your own argument to disprove what I'm saying or provide a fuller perspective. But don't generalize all the detailed points I make into a quick unfair summary, and make it seem like I spin it that euro fighters are always undersized even in cases where they aren't or it doesn't matter, despite the fact I've only said it about boxers who really are undersized, when discussing topics where it really is relevant (like how hard does Loma hit? Well you need to judge the size difference between him and his opponents in order to judge that. Same with Bivol, etc), and despite the fact I just happily listed to you euro fighters who aren't small at all for their weight class, and who as a result I have not brought that up about (except in rare cases where the weight bullying of potential opponents is so extreme, like Marcus Browne rehydrating 18 lbs at light heavyweight something I've never seen before, that it makes a big light heavy like Gvozdyks uddenly a fully weight class smaller in the ring based on his fight night weight that I remember seeing. Then, I mention how in that one particular matchup, he would be at a size disadvantage, but I would never say he is small at the weight overall. Again, both of those are just being factual). I just don't think it's fair to mischaracterize my points in that way when if you go specifics by specifics, I do my best to just write facts. And I think that's why you refuse to address my points specifically, and instead choose to mischaracterize them in a quick summary, because you don't have a real rebuttal for my specific arguments, so instead you resort to this. But, you're free to criticize how you see fit. Peace

[DuckAdonis]

This would be a great fight....could also happen at 130 for all I care. I think Lomachenko should go back down to 130 anyway, Berchelt is a big guy