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Just an ass load of history on this and yet everyone who seems interested in the subject matter also seems totally adverse to reading a bit of history.
Let me ask you this, why on earth would you believe man devised a sport of just punching before he devised a sport without rules?
I'd like to think that even if I knew nothing of history I'd assume a state of no rules existed prior to a state of rules but from the way you guys talk about the mixing of combat sports or martial arts it's like you think boxing came first or some ****. I promise you long before anyone ever said "hey, when we fight let's only punch" there was just a ****load of fights that had no rules.
As time went on fighting got refined. Various places across the planet have various martial arts that were refined from success in a no rules state into a system with rules that if followed should yield success. From them, some military martial arts were devised and their worth tested on the battlefield. Boxing is one of them. Of the martial arts that are battle tested none have boxing's track record. Well, maybe one, her sister wrestling, but those lines are blurry. The distinction between boxing and wrestling comes and goes, however, boxing is the more dominant of the two over time.
Created for war, boxing is a Spartan military training to prepare soldiers for sword and shield combat that just happens to have been adopted by literally every major western power and the most powerful nations history has to offer. Greece, Rome, The British Empire, The United States of America. We talking hegemony or boxing? Makes no difference. It's war record is bar none the best.
Beyond that, as a sport boxing has mingled with other sports since ancient times. The boxers Theagenes and Klietomachos are the only champions for the ancient world to unite boxing, wrestling, and pankration (ancient greek/roman mma)
Boxing is made illegal in 300ish AD and until the 1720's was considered heresy across christendom. During this time a curious form of two different, it isn't boxing we swear it, sports pop up. The first of them is a form of wrestling that involves punching. The second is a form of fencing that requires no weapon. These forms of combat were not for sport or war but rather honor. Honor Duels will show you again the mettle of Apollo's game. That wrestling that was actually just a bit of boxing and the fencing with fists both mixed up and became boxing again because the superior athletes in all forms were bum bum bum boxers. James Figg was a swordsman, a master of quarterstaff, cudgel, wrestler, and above all else the Heavyweight champion of England.
We ain't done yet. Take a look at Chesapeake between 1650 and 1720. The roughest, toughest, meanest form of fighting man has ever recorded to have gone on in masses. Rough and Tumble is what we call it today but when the fighters fought it was called boxing. Boxing in all its forms is brutal, this was boxing without set rules and in an age when men could read and write their accounts. Even the Romans did not see such brutality as the colonies. Your life is one the line today as it was in the London Prize Ring or in the Pyx or in the Pygmachia, but never before has your vision, your flesh, even your manhood been up for forfeit in boxing. Castration, eye gouging, biting, ripping the skin, weapons, you name it, there were no rules. What came of rough and tumble? Of course the men who were best at it were men who used their fists. They became your first American champions. They moved from rough and tumble, or no rules, to london prize ring rules and took over the sport.
When people say things like "bare knuckle boxers actually had a lot of skill, it wasn't all about standing and punching" they're looking at bare knuckle from a European point of view, in America is was far less glamorous.
Speaking of London Prize Ring, it still is not yet a sport only about punching. By the second revision (1850s-ish) we're getting close to a sport about punching but two things still remain. Greco-Roman grappling and kicks. They wore steel cleats and allowed a form of kicks.
yep, plenty of men got their legs cut up. The most famous would be Nonpareil Dempsey vs Johnny Reagan. Good four inch gash on the MW champ.
It isn't even 1888 when you can really say boxing was refined down to simply punching without any intermingling of other sports or martial arts to any considerable degree. That doesn't happen until around 1910. Prior to then the champion dictated the rules under a tradition called champion's prerogative.
Time and time again boxing, or simply fist fighting if you like, has been questioned. What if we make up these rules, what if we try these techniques, a little change here and little change there, now surely boxing will fail. It has yet to be done.
I wrote a ****load already....I can't believe your ass is still reading. The show's over, go away.
Alright, clearly you need even more convincing. You ever looked into ficticuffs in Kievan Rus? How about the first century champion Demokrates traveling the silk road? you really don't think there's record of what happens when British boxing meets traditional martial arts...you've heard of the british empire and hong kong right?
If you want to know which martial art reigns over all other martial arts all you need to read is a history book.
Jackson grew up in a rough neighborhood, and began learning martial arts to defend himself. As a result, he was suspended from school for instigating fights on more than one occasion. In 1992, after graduating from Rio Grande High School, Jackson founded his own martial art, Gaidojutsu, which combines rudimentary techniques from catch wrestling and Muay Thai with basic judo locks. His school officially turned into an MMA school in 2000.
New veneer, same old tale. In the end MMA will mirror boxing and then we'll give it up and forget about it.
Let me ask you this, why on earth would you believe man devised a sport of just punching before he devised a sport without rules?
I'd like to think that even if I knew nothing of history I'd assume a state of no rules existed prior to a state of rules but from the way you guys talk about the mixing of combat sports or martial arts it's like you think boxing came first or some ****. I promise you long before anyone ever said "hey, when we fight let's only punch" there was just a ****load of fights that had no rules.
As time went on fighting got refined. Various places across the planet have various martial arts that were refined from success in a no rules state into a system with rules that if followed should yield success. From them, some military martial arts were devised and their worth tested on the battlefield. Boxing is one of them. Of the martial arts that are battle tested none have boxing's track record. Well, maybe one, her sister wrestling, but those lines are blurry. The distinction between boxing and wrestling comes and goes, however, boxing is the more dominant of the two over time.
Created for war, boxing is a Spartan military training to prepare soldiers for sword and shield combat that just happens to have been adopted by literally every major western power and the most powerful nations history has to offer. Greece, Rome, The British Empire, The United States of America. We talking hegemony or boxing? Makes no difference. It's war record is bar none the best.
Beyond that, as a sport boxing has mingled with other sports since ancient times. The boxers Theagenes and Klietomachos are the only champions for the ancient world to unite boxing, wrestling, and pankration (ancient greek/roman mma)
Boxing is made illegal in 300ish AD and until the 1720's was considered heresy across christendom. During this time a curious form of two different, it isn't boxing we swear it, sports pop up. The first of them is a form of wrestling that involves punching. The second is a form of fencing that requires no weapon. These forms of combat were not for sport or war but rather honor. Honor Duels will show you again the mettle of Apollo's game. That wrestling that was actually just a bit of boxing and the fencing with fists both mixed up and became boxing again because the superior athletes in all forms were bum bum bum boxers. James Figg was a swordsman, a master of quarterstaff, cudgel, wrestler, and above all else the Heavyweight champion of England.
We ain't done yet. Take a look at Chesapeake between 1650 and 1720. The roughest, toughest, meanest form of fighting man has ever recorded to have gone on in masses. Rough and Tumble is what we call it today but when the fighters fought it was called boxing. Boxing in all its forms is brutal, this was boxing without set rules and in an age when men could read and write their accounts. Even the Romans did not see such brutality as the colonies. Your life is one the line today as it was in the London Prize Ring or in the Pyx or in the Pygmachia, but never before has your vision, your flesh, even your manhood been up for forfeit in boxing. Castration, eye gouging, biting, ripping the skin, weapons, you name it, there were no rules. What came of rough and tumble? Of course the men who were best at it were men who used their fists. They became your first American champions. They moved from rough and tumble, or no rules, to london prize ring rules and took over the sport.
When people say things like "bare knuckle boxers actually had a lot of skill, it wasn't all about standing and punching" they're looking at bare knuckle from a European point of view, in America is was far less glamorous.
Speaking of London Prize Ring, it still is not yet a sport only about punching. By the second revision (1850s-ish) we're getting close to a sport about punching but two things still remain. Greco-Roman grappling and kicks. They wore steel cleats and allowed a form of kicks.
yep, plenty of men got their legs cut up. The most famous would be Nonpareil Dempsey vs Johnny Reagan. Good four inch gash on the MW champ.It isn't even 1888 when you can really say boxing was refined down to simply punching without any intermingling of other sports or martial arts to any considerable degree. That doesn't happen until around 1910. Prior to then the champion dictated the rules under a tradition called champion's prerogative.
Time and time again boxing, or simply fist fighting if you like, has been questioned. What if we make up these rules, what if we try these techniques, a little change here and little change there, now surely boxing will fail. It has yet to be done.
I wrote a ****load already....I can't believe your ass is still reading. The show's over, go away.
Alright, clearly you need even more convincing. You ever looked into ficticuffs in Kievan Rus? How about the first century champion Demokrates traveling the silk road? you really don't think there's record of what happens when British boxing meets traditional martial arts...you've heard of the british empire and hong kong right?
If you want to know which martial art reigns over all other martial arts all you need to read is a history book.
Jackson grew up in a rough neighborhood, and began learning martial arts to defend himself. As a result, he was suspended from school for instigating fights on more than one occasion. In 1992, after graduating from Rio Grande High School, Jackson founded his own martial art, Gaidojutsu, which combines rudimentary techniques from catch wrestling and Muay Thai with basic judo locks. His school officially turned into an MMA school in 2000.
New veneer, same old tale. In the end MMA will mirror boxing and then we'll give it up and forget about it.
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