Wilder's words at the presser make this worse.

[Combat Talk Radio]

Remember...he said that Clinchko beat himself because "...he didn't throw no punches" - only to have Wilder basically do the same thing. Barely thew any punches, jab was nearly non-existent, points where he could have thrown off Fury's feint rhythm but as Floyd said, kept looking for one big shot all night.

So is it really that Wilder beat himself? Because that's what I saw. And that's not dismissing Fury's performance.

[Ray*]

One thing that I have seen here is those that backed Wilder are claiming Fury didn’t make Wilder pay after making him miss. Am not sure if they had their rose tinted goggles on but Fury was the one landing one twos on Wilder face, by the 4th round Wilder had a bump on his left eyelid, you know why? Because Fury made Wilder not throw. He had Wilder respect early on because he stunt/hurt Wilder a couple of times. I see this same trait in Mayweather’s opponents were they are hesitant to throw, even though everyone claimed Mayweather doesn’t hit hard, so when Wilder said Father Time beat Wlad he was wrong, Wlad knew something was coming back from Fury, he felt Fury’s own shots and he became hesitant, just like Wilder felt those one twos and became hesitant to throw. Not Father Time but it’s what Fury was doing.

[sunny31]

Remember...he said that Clinchko beat himself because "...he didn't throw no punches" - only to have Wilder basically do the same thing. Barely thew any punches, jab was nearly non-existent, points where he could have thrown off Fury's feint rhythm but as Floyd said, kept looking for one big shot all night.

So is it really that Wilder beat himself? Because that's what I saw. And that's not dismissing Fury's performance.

What two world class fighters now?

You ain't getting to Fury regularly if you can't set up your punches.

Fact is Wilder and Wlad had a better jab then everyone they fought but Fury had a better jab then both of them, the jab is super important, especially at heavyweight.

Fury is a left handed orthodox fighter, his jab comes out like Barreras. He has super footwork and defence., he maximises feints, which lots of boxers don't. All of this creates hesitation, and on top of that he is super quick, I'm not talking about speed, I'm talking about mind quickness.

Yeah I think you guys need to start waking up to Fury's abilities. I think many have since last night, but still a few with their heads in the clouds.

[sunny31]

One thing that I have seen here is those that backed Wilder are claiming Fury didn’t make Wilder pay after making him miss. Am not sure if they had their rose tinted goggles on but Fury was the one landing one twos on Wilder face, by the 4th round Wilder had a bump on his left eyelid, you know why? Because Fury made Wilder not throw. He had Wilder respect early on because he stunt/hurt Wilder a couple of times. I see this same trait in Mayweather’s opponents were they are hesitant to throw, even though everyone claimed Mayweather doesn’t hit hard, so when Wilder said Father Time beat Wlad he was wrong, Wlad knew something was coming back from Fury, he felt Fury’s own shots and he became hesitant, just like Wilder felt those one twos and became hesitant to throw. Not Father Time but it’s what Fury was doing.

Yep underrated pop too, I talked a lot about this in the build up

[Combat Talk Radio]

What two world class fighters now?

You ain't getting to Fury regularly if you can't set up your punches.

Fact is Wilder and Wlad had a better jab then everyone they fought but Fury had a better jab then both of them, the jab is super important, especially at heavyweight.

Fury is a left handed orthodox fighter, his jab comes out like Barreras. He has super footwork and defence., he maximises feints, which lots of boxers don't. All of this creates hesitation, and on top of that he is super quick, I'm not talking about speed, I'm talking about mind quickness.

Yeah I think you guys need to start waking up to Fury's abilities. I think many have since last night, but still a few with their heads in the clouds.

We don't know how good Wilder's jab is or isn't because he hardly threw it at Fury all night long. Stiverne was stationary, so we can't use that for comparison.

All we learned is that Deontay is WAY less effective against a moving target. I think he sparks Joshua for the same reason Grabomir did - Joshua wasn't moving when he got clipped. But I get the distinct feeling that no version of Deontay beats Tyson Fury unless Fury makes it happen by getting sloppy at some point in the fight. Which is what happened last night.

[sunny31]

We don't know how good Wilder's jab is or isn't because he hardly threw it at Fury all night long. Stiverne was stationary, so we can't use that for comparison.

All we learned is that Deontay is WAY less effective against a moving target. I think he sparks Joshua for the same reason Grabomir did - Joshua wasn't moving when he got clipped. But I get the distinct feeling that no version of Deontay beats Tyson Fury unless Fury makes it happen by getting sloppy at some point in the fight. Which is what happened last night.

Incorrect, he threw it right on his historical average, but couldn't land it as he had a better fighter in front of him for all the reasons I mention in my opening post. Fury's jab is incredibly smooth and comes out without a tell or he freezes you with feints.

You are way too fixated on what Wilder is doing, but if you look at what Fury is doing also you'd have a better perspective.

No point taking anything from this regards to a Joshua fight, it couldn't be much more different stylistically. Joshua will come out looking for Wilder.

[Combat Talk Radio]

Incorrect, he threw it right on his historical average

His historical average is misleading because he's sparked lesser fighters.

The only two other opponents that can be fairly compared are Ortiz and Stiverne.

Stiverne was a stationary target. Ortiz made Wilder tentative just like Fury did, but Ortiz was getting hit.

That means we still don't and won't know about Wilder's jab, outside of the Stiverne fight. We have no measure for an opponent that's actually good at moving around the ring.

What I saw, I maintain.

[EasternEuroFan]

Anybody that knows boxing knows that Wlad and Wilder both didn't throw because they only ever got used to throwing stationary targets and got lost when they had a mover that is smart. That's the top and bottom of it.

Let's not forget, Wlad barely threw much v Haye for the same reason, it's just Haye was too small to control the distance and lost. Wlad didn't let his punches go in that one. It was just a stinker. If Haye had a couple of flurries per round, he could've won because Wlad didn't want to do much because he didn't have a big lump stood infront of him with his hands up bumbling forward.

If Wilder truly thought Wlad beat himself, then it shows how low his boxing IQ is and it's no surprise he fell into the same trap so easily if he didn't recognise what Fury can do before the fight.

[sunny31]

His historical average is misleading because he's sparked lesser fighters.

The only two other opponents that can be fairly compared are Ortiz and Stiverne.

Stiverne was a stationary target. Ortiz made Wilder tentative just like Fury did, but Ortiz was getting hit.

That means we still don't and won't know about Wilder's jab, outside of the Stiverne fight. We have no measure for an opponent that's actually good at moving around the ring.

What I saw, I maintain.

Well it's not because he didn't try and throw it which was part of your argument, he did try but the other guy had a better one, and by the way he can move and do a lot of different stuff that previous fighters couldn't.

Ortiz ain't Fury and Stiverne def ain't Fury, which is my point and your starting to make it for me. Give the man who muzzled him credit don't try and put it on Wilder not doing this or that, of course he could do things better but the things your saying there are reasons why he couldn't go do them, which myself and another poster have provided some insight into. I'm not a arm chair fan, I know boxing.

It's easy sometimes looking at a guy from outside the ring and different when your in front of him.

[Simurgh]

Wilder actually said someting along the lines “you have to loose some to get better”. He KNOWS he lost that fight. You can see it on a massive smile he had as the cards were read out.