why do people seem to think big heavyweights have never existed before this century?

[Madison Boxing]

im sick to death of reading how old fighters couldnt compete with the big heavyweights of today because they are 'too small'

There was a few posters saying miller (fresh off beating the world number 52) beats an all time great in frazier because he weighs too much. I also did a tongue in cheek thread a while ago about how would luis ortiz do against past legends like marciano, ali etc (because of how much wilder fans were bigging him up now) and there were posters actually taking it serious saying hed win against most of them because he was too big and that them older fighters couldnt compete in this era of bigger fighters.

So can someone explain to me what the **** do people mean when they talk about 'this era of super heavyweights?' I keep hearing this as if theres been some sudden genetic mutation that has suddenly produced big human beings this century and theres been no such thing as big/tall/heavy people in other eras who could have made great heavyweights.

Why wasnt there some fat **** like miller and ortiz in previous eras just walking down these supposedly small heavyweights if it was so easy? Why wasnt there some 6 ft 7 giant who was taught a solid jab who was too big for everyone else? I know sports nutrition has evolved in recent years but i think if it was advantageous to be 300+ pounds then they may have had the common sense to start eating more.

Just because the current heavyweight landscape (which funnily enough also seems to be considered one of the weakest ever) consists of bigger fighters, doesnt mean that suddenly no 'smaller fighter' can ever compete with them and that you have to be 6ft 6+ to compete or weight a ridiculous amount. Its even more ridiculous when weve seen them all struggle with smaller guys in the past

Fighters such as ali and frazier were the best because they were the best fighters, they were still big men but they had the skill alongside it. Its absolute nonsense to think they couldnt compete with the guys around at the moment because they are 'too small', if that was the case then the tallest and heaviest fighters would have dominated the division all through history. People acting like there was a ****ing weight cap or height restriction on the division or some **** in previous eras.

[Cortez]

this is one way to look at it and a solid point as some cruisers still today beat big men.

Guys like ALI frazier foreman were also all gold medal champions, do you know of any Olympic gold medal winners from years past at sizes of 250lb plus ?

These years theres Lewis Joshua Wlad alone as olympic gold winners

thats not including excellent amatuers like vitali, fury etc


there has always been big men just not with the same level of tools


does that mean they are definitely better, I dont think so......

[Cortez]

also it is an era of superheavies as even ones not so good like david pryce audley harrison and miller are still massive and there is more than ever of them

[Zaryu]

While I agree with the opening post, I also think the issue at hand is we have more of the extra large men now than we did back then. And while I don't subscribe to the notion that the heavies of the past can't compete with today's larger heavyweights, I admit it would be interesting to see some of the old time great heavies against these larger, well accomplished, heavyweights. Fighters like Lennox Lewis, the Klitschko's and even Ri**** Bowe.

[NEETzsche]

My theory is that the advancement in PED technology mitigates some of the drawbacks of being extremely heavy these days. Nowadays 240 lbs fighters can have the cardio and lean muscle of 210 lbs guys of old. Before PEDs were prevalent the 210 lbs fighter would actually have the advantage in every respect but raw strength

[Outwest Exp 355]

Who the hell did Marciano ever fight that wasn’t over the hill. Every great fighter on his resume was mid to late 30’s when they fought. Hell Jersey Joe was damn near 40. And not only did he fight him he fought him again after stopping him.

[Commie]

PEDs make the tall skinny guys able to gain muscle mass and speed/ power

[Bardamu]

When people talk of Super Heavyweights today, they usually are referring to guys 6'7 or taller who are also extremely athletic. The Klitschko's were not exciting, they did not wow anyone with their performances. But it is an extremely effective strategy. Lennox Lewis started it. Then the brothers. And now AJ. They just do not allow smaller guys to get close enough to land anything.

The old timers would have a better chance against Wilder.

As for Marciano, I have to say a cruiserweight would have a much harder time today. I can't see Marciano outboxing those guys for a decision, and I can't see him ko'ing them either. But after Wilder, Fury, and AJ the rest of today's heavyweights would get smoked by such legends. They would have a better chance against Wilder though, since he doesn't use the same style of jab, jab, jab, clinch. Jab, jab.

Ortiz likely would ko some of the past greats. Anyone talking about Miller beating any top heavyweight of any era is either trolling or one crack. But there were no 6'3 240 pound heavies, with the power and skill Ortiz has. I'm not saying Ortiz would beat former greats, but he would have a chance. There have not been many heavyweights like him. 240 pound counter puncher, with serious power.

[Bardamu]

While I agree with the opening post, I also think the issue at hand is we have more of the extra large men now than we did back then. And while I don't subscribe to the notion that the heavies of the past can't compete with today's larger heavyweights, I admit it would be interesting to see some of the old time great heavies against these larger, well accomplished, heavyweights. Fighters like Lennox Lewis, the Klitschko's and even Ri**** Bowe.

Lennox, the Klitshcko's and even Bowe were all taller fighters that kept opponents away with a stiff jab. Being fat isn't why people say the oldies wouldn't win. It is because they would have serious trouble getting close enough to land their shots.

Mike Tyson and Joe Frazier are the only two smaller heavies who could close the distance with superb head movement and then unleash their ko power. And they never fought someone who was 6'7 who fought the style of this century's top heavyweights. (Except of course Tyson-Lewis, but that doesn't really count.)

[REDEEMER]

I think Frazier would struggle with miller because of his size which does exist ,hes 300 plus pounds and can fight, maybe not as good as Frazier but skills don't always win. I think miller can take a better punch and has a good chance to defeat Frazier. This doesn't take away from Fraziers achievements as I just posted in the other thread. Pitting any 205 pounder which was Fraziers prime weight against a 300 pounder could potentially be difficult. Theres a guy who defeated Frazier around that weight in the amatuers,lets not forget theres weight classes for a reason. nobody really fights below 210 anymore.

There were a few guys who could fight but not many,with technical abilities before the 80's came around, because they were Ali and Holmes type guys . Im not very impressed with the Baers or Carnera's to be honest ,they were very raw.