Is Wilder his 'own worst enemy'?

[SeGoodland]

Wanted to start with an apology to any Americans who I have offended with comments I've made, took it too far and it became a US v UK thing rather than about boxing. Sorry about that.

I am a big AJ fan, have been since he was in the Olympics. Its not new to me to have some trollers or haters.

Trying to take a step back and look at this Wilder situation more objectively.

Lets just get a few things out of the way...

1. Yes, it would appear that AJ swerved the fight even though he accepted the $50m+ to fight Wilder, despite him saying he would fight for $50m. (albeit, confirmed that the fight would be on BT rather than Sky - Americans may not understand why that is an issue, however, it is).
2. AJ has a better relative resume than Wilder. 21 fights against better opponents. There can be no question there.
3. The heavyweight division is not what is used to be but that is not the fault of AJ, Wilder etc. You can only fight who is in front of you and/or available/holds the title (looking at Charles Martin there).
4. Wilder had a signed contract by Hearn, who has power of attorney. It doesn't matter who signed it, if someone has power of attorney to confirm a fight via a contract...Wilder has a signed contract for a fight. Wilder doesn't want that flat fee deal (with US rematch (?)). Fair enough.

So.
There has been a lot of talk about how Joshua is fighting Povetkin because he didn't want the Wilder fight, blah blah blah, we've heard it all a thousand times already. I haven't seen anyone look at this from the different perspective...Wilder would clearly prefer to fight Povetkin instead of Joshua. It was highly publicised that Joshua would fight a mandatory if negotiations failed to produce a unification fight with Wilder. It would be very clever [of Wilder] to let Povetkin take on Joshua first and hope that Povetkin won, it would be an easier unification fight and even I would say Wilder KO's Povetkin inside 2/3 rounds. It would be an easy win, he'd make $15-$20 million dollars as it would sell well in the UK too (imo) and he'd be the unified, undisputed Heavyweight champ...he'd be the A side, no doubt. It makes complete sense that Wilder may have allowed Joshua to take an extra risk.

In steps Tyson Fury. Seemingly willing to take Wilder on after a lengthy time out of the ring and for the Gypsy King to say 'AJ is a ****house, AJ is a coward' blah blah blah, again, we've heard it all a thousand times.

But why would Wilder accept a fight (possibly two fight?) deal with Fury just for the lineal title? Yes, its a good title to have but there have been some less deserving fighters in the past who have held that, so it doesn't really have as big an impact as holding all four World HW Titles (I'm sure some will disagree). Wilder can build a legacy off of the back of being the first man to hold all four titles.

Wilder has introduced a career damaging risk in agreeing a fight with Fury. Fury stands alone in his ability, in the Heavyweight division. No, he doesn't have the devastating knockout power than Wilder AND Joshua but he does have the ability to move like a middleweight and fight as a heavyweight. Hit and not be hit. Its a mouth watering prospect to see Wilder fight Fury. I believe that Fury can deliver Wilder's first loss which would result in Wilder putting himself out of contention of the first four title unification, with Joshua. Fury, however, if he wins will have pulled the rug out from under Wilders feet whilst giving Joshua (and Hearn) the middle finger. Pretty genius move from Fury (and Warren).

Why wouldn't Wilder accept further negotiations with Hearn whilst Joshua is in camp for Povetkin? This is seemingly the best time for Wilder to be in negotiations for a fight in April. Joshua has publicly said that he is going to walk through Povetkin, which in my opinion is lacking in respect for the Russian...Wilder could keep one of Joshua's eyes fixed on him rather on the opponent. A much smarter move than allowing risk to himself, in my eyes. Povetkin can knockout much bigger (in terms of size) fighters...Joshua should be respecting the Russian's ability. Wilder has missed a trick there (imo).

Why wouldn't Wilder agree to fight Breazeale despite all of the hate between them? I would watch Wilder v Breazeale because, for UK fans, if Wilder can walk through Breazeale in the same way that Joshua did, it increases his profile with UK fans as well as settling a beef. Yes, Fury is a bigger fight and I will 100% watch it but Breazeale serves a purpose and would be the less risker option. Then its all roads to Wembley and the biggest heavyweight unification fight in recent years.

In the UK, we have a saying; 'Don't cut your nose off to spite your face'. Fury wins, Wilder can only blame himself.

[N/A]

1. Yes, it would appear that AJ swerved the fight even though he accepted the $50m+ to fight Wilder, despite him saying he would fight for $50m. (albeit, confirmed that the fight would be on BT rather than Sky - Americans may not understand why that is an issue, however, it is).

Finkel didn't care whether it was on Sky or BT. He said it would be on Sky as long as they matched BT's offer. That wasn't the deal breaker. Hearn has already admitted AJ's trainer didn't want the fight yet.

2. AJ has a better relative resume than Wilder. 21 fights against better opponents. There can be no question there.

Who cares? They're clearly the top two boxers on planet Earth. They should fight each other.

3. The heavyweight division is not what is used to be but that is not the fault of AJ, Wilder etc. You can only fight who is in front of you and/or available/holds the title (looking at Charles Martin there).

The Klitschkos ran the division into the ground by holding the belts hostage and refusing to fight each other. Heavyweight boxing always flourishes when there's an undisputed champion or a legit chance of an undisputed champion. It's like horse racing. A bunch of people who wouldn't normally watch only watch if there might be a triple crown. To the average sports fan, boxing is better off being ignored if they can't agree on who the heavyweight champion is.

4. Wilder had a signed contract by Hearn, who has power of attorney. It doesn't matter who signed it, if someone has power of attorney to confirm a fight via a contract...Wilder has a signed contract for a fight. Wilder doesn't want that flat fee deal (with US rematch (?)). Fair enough.

Flat fee was for 2018 only. When Hearn refused to keep his word, flat fee went out the window.

You're right it doesn't matter who signs the deal, but the problem is that Wilder was specifically told AJ would personally sign. He's just tired of being lied to. And with AJ on the verge of free agency at the time, you could understand why his signature would mean more than Hearn's. Now that AJ resigned with matchroom, it's not a big deal, but Hearn publicly lied and said AJ signed the deal and it wasn't true.

[SeGoodland]

...

Ok, but what about Wilder??? You've addressed the first points but what about the rest???

[Madison Boxing]

If fury wins then it goes down as one of the worst decisions ever made by wilder. There's nowhere else to go. No big paydays and the American 'fanbase' (which have appeared out of nowhere) will throw him on the scrap heap

[MulaKO]

Wanted to start with an apology to any Americans who I have offended with comments I've made, took it too far and it became a US v UK thing rather than about boxing. Sorry about that.

I am a big AJ fan, have been since he was in the Olympics. Its not new to me to have some trollers or haters.

Trying to take a step back and look at this Wilder situation more objectively.

Lets just get a few things out of the way...

1. Yes, it would appear that AJ swerved the fight even though he accepted the $50m+ to fight Wilder, despite him saying he would fight for $50m. (albeit, confirmed that the fight would be on BT rather than Sky - Americans may not understand why that is an issue, however, it is).
2. AJ has a better relative resume than Wilder. 21 fights against better opponents. There can be no question there.
3. The heavyweight division is not what is used to be but that is not the fault of AJ, Wilder etc. You can only fight who is in front of you and/or available/holds the title (looking at Charles Martin there).
4. Wilder had a signed contract by Hearn, who has power of attorney. It doesn't matter who signed it, if someone has power of attorney to confirm a fight via a contract...Wilder has a signed contract for a fight. Wilder doesn't want that flat fee deal (with US rematch (?)). Fair enough.

So.
There has been a lot of talk about how Joshua is fighting Povetkin because he didn't want the Wilder fight, blah blah blah, we've heard it all a thousand times already. I haven't seen anyone look at this from the different perspective...Wilder would clearly prefer to fight Povetkin instead of Joshua. It was highly publicised that Joshua would fight a mandatory if negotiations failed to produce a unification fight with Wilder. It would be very clever [of Wilder] to let Povetkin take on Joshua first and hope that Povetkin won, it would be an easier unification fight and even I would say Wilder KO's Povetkin inside 2/3 rounds. It would be an easy win, he'd make $15-$20 million dollars as it would sell well in the UK too (imo) and he'd be the unified, undisputed Heavyweight champ...he'd be the A side, no doubt. It makes complete sense that Wilder may have allowed Joshua to take an extra risk.

In steps Tyson Fury. Seemingly willing to take Wilder on after a lengthy time out of the ring and for the Gypsy King to say 'AJ is a ****house, AJ is a coward' blah blah blah, again, we've heard it all a thousand times.

But why would Wilder accept a fight (possibly two fight?) deal with Fury just for the lineal title? Yes, its a good title to have but there have been some less deserving fighters in the past who have held that, so it doesn't really have as big an impact as holding all four World HW Titles (I'm sure some will disagree). Wilder can build a legacy off of the back of being the first man to hold all four titles.

Wilder has introduced a career damaging risk in agreeing a fight with Fury. Fury stands alone in his ability, in the Heavyweight division. No, he doesn't have the devastating knockout power than Wilder AND Joshua but he does have the ability to move like a middleweight and fight as a heavyweight. Hit and not be hit. Its a mouth watering prospect to see Wilder fight Fury. I believe that Fury can deliver Wilder's first loss which would result in Wilder putting himself out of contention of the first four title unification, with Joshua. Fury, however, if he wins will have pulled the rug out from under Wilders feet whilst giving Joshua (and Hearn) the middle finger. Pretty genius move from Fury (and Warren).

Why wouldn't Wilder accept further negotiations with Hearn whilst Joshua is in camp for Povetkin? This is seemingly the best time for Wilder to be in negotiations for a fight in April. Joshua has publicly said that he is going to walk through Povetkin, which in my opinion is lacking in respect for the Russian...Wilder could keep one of Joshua's eyes fixed on him rather on the opponent. A much smarter move than allowing risk to himself, in my eyes. Povetkin can knockout much bigger (in terms of size) fighters...Joshua should be respecting the Russian's ability. Wilder has missed a trick there (imo).

Why wouldn't Wilder agree to fight Breazeale despite all of the hate between them? I would watch Wilder v Breazeale because, for UK fans, if Wilder can walk through Breazeale in the same way that Joshua did, it increases his profile with UK fans as well as settling a beef. Yes, Fury is a bigger fight and I will 100% watch it but Breazeale serves a purpose and would be the less risker option. Then its all roads to Wembley and the biggest heavyweight unification fight in recent years.

In the UK, we have a saying; 'Don't cut your nose off to spite your face'. Fury wins, Wilder can only blame himself.

You do make a very valid point
As I stated in another thread , not so sure Fury is at the top of his game ( ring rust etc etc )
I think if Wilder can handle the storm and take the punishment for first few rounds then and only then this fight will end as the Ortiz fight
I really think Fury will have stamina problems
Pianeta does not count for chit cause first he couldn’t catch him and secondly when he did , there was nothing behind them ( always caught him when Pianeta was not solid on his feet )
Kudos to his movement but also he knew their was no fughin fear whatsoever of getting hurt which makes a big difference
When you know someone can hurt you that’s when you begin to think too much and become hesitant
You are not the same fighter

[Jax teller]

I don't see Fury as a big threat to Wilder as I imagine Wilders team don't, off the back of his recent perfomances. Beating him however is a great busines move as it removes a big earner for AJ and gives Wilder the lineal title and massive leverage.

Your right though all the rest of the stuff is b0llocks and posturing. A flat fee for a fight of such a great potential, who would agree to that and why not just offer the equivalent %? A 50 mil offer but no meetings allowed to discuss,no contract and repeated cancelling of meetings already booked, how could someone agree to that as well? They're taking us all for a ride.

[SeGoodland]

You do make a very valid point
As I stated in another thread , not so sure Fury is at the top of his game ( ring rust etc etc )
I think if Wilder can handle the storm and take the punishment for first few rounds then and only then this fight will end as the Ortiz fight
I really think Fury will have stamina problems
Pianeta does not count for chit cause first he couldn’t catch him and secondly when he did , there was nothing behind them ( always caught him when Pianeta was not solid on his feet )
Kudos to his movement but also he knew their was no fughin fear whatsoever of getting hurt which makes a big difference
When you know someone can hurt you that’s when you begin to think too much and become hesitant
You are not the same fighter

I do rate Wilder's power even though his technique is unorthodox. That's why its so devastating because its a big lash out, he lacks that balance though. When he is letting loose the bombs, Fury can make him miss badly and that's where Wilder can be punished.

If Wilder connects, its another story altogether though.

Do you think that Fury has a better chance v Wilder than Povetkin? has v Joshua? Imo, HW boxing can and will continue to produce upsets.

I think Povetkin will finish Joshua if he lands on him cleanly.

[SeGoodland]

I don't see Fury as a big threat to Wilder as I imagine Wilders team don't, off the back of his recent perfomances. Beating him however is a great busines move as it removes a big earner for AJ and gives Wilder the lineal title and massive leverage.

Your right though all the rest of the stuff is b0llocks and posturing. A flat fee for a fight of such a great potential, who would agree to that and why not just offer the equivalent %? A 50 mil offer but no meetings allowed to discuss,no contract and repeated cancelling of meetings already booked, how could someone agree to that as well? They're taking us all for a ride.

Yeah, I've been guilty of getting into the rhetoric and I've said ****** **** which has nothing to do with boxing. That's been down to being passionate about boxing I guess. Still no excuse to get ****** into all of the ****ty press.

[pittapatta66]

Just posting to say that I'm not reading that, ain't got time fo' dat. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuucc that!

Good day to you ol' chap

[Jax teller]

Yeah, I've been guilty of getting into the rhetoric and I've said ****** **** which has nothing to do with boxing. That's been down to being passionate about boxing I guess. Still no excuse to get ****** into all of the ****ty press.

Yeah I get it though especially when Wilder comes out all dramatic with stuff 'after what I've been put through' and claiming to have been 'degraded' by 15 million and people still defend him.