Thoughts on the rise and fall of Sergey Kovalev

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  • Scopedog
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    #1

    Thoughts on the rise and fall of Sergey Kovalev

    I was going to post this in the fight thread but the post got too big for that. I think Kovalev's rise to prominence and fall from grace is a pretty interesting story and I think he's one of boxing's more interesting personalities, so I wanted to collect my thoughts on the way his career has gone in recent times.

    Kovalev ruled the division by fear for a long time, he was the guy with the reputation of being a huge puncher as well as a bit of a psycho who enjoys hurting people and knocking them out, and showed no remorse after one of his early opponents died. If I had to pick a moment that I feel sums up Kovalev's old image as a LHW monster, I'd either think of him gloating and taunting Ismail Sillakh as he lay unconscious by the edge of the ring, or him stating that he carried Jean Pascal through rounds just so he could keep hurting him and beating him up.

    However, and I know how corny and cliched this sounds by now, but Ward really did take something from him. Not so much his "soul" like I and many others have previously said, but his reputation for sure. After Ward beat him, despite how narrow and / or controversial those wins were, the image of the unbeatable juggernaut psycho Russian was more or less dispelled. He didn't help himself either, after the first loss he came across as a whiner and a sore loser, had a bit of a meltdown and lost the rapport he had with his trainer (very foolish, I always thought JDJ told him the right things in his corner.) As a result the allure of the dangerous psychopath ****er just kind of unravelled into an image of someone who was just a guy with a lot of pretty serious defects in his personality (self-centred, bad temper, bully, racist etc.)

    As soon as that allure was dispelled it was like the cloak dropped from around the weaknesses in his game too - having just seen his KO at the hands of Alvarez it just illustrates perfectly how dismal his defense is for a fighter at this level. The signs were there before, eg. the KD he took from Blake Caparello, but this fight really laid those flaws bare. I don't think he has a weak chin, in fact if his first fight against Pascal is anything to go by it's actually pretty strong. However, unless you have a Provodnikov level chin you just can't eat the kind of big bomb he took from Alvarez that led to the first KD and get away with it, and he just took it from a mile away with his left hand practically down by his waist. The other two KDs aren't much better - he has his hands up for the last one, but he was already too badly hurt and it's a weak guard that Alvarez just goes around to get the KO.



    He's still a dangerous puncher, as he was punishing Alvarez just a couple of rounds earlier, and he even has a few special trademark tricks that amplify the danger his power poses, but with the flaws in his defense exposed he's significantly less dangerous than he was once perceived to be - and at this stage of his career he's not likely to rectify those flaws, especially as if JDJ is to be believed he doesn't like being told what to do by his trainers and is overall a difficult man to deal with. He used to be able to get away with it because his reputation inspired fear and his opponents largely ran away from him, allowing him to lead off without having to worry too much about what was coming back, but now that guys know they can step up and blast back and probably do some damage because of his poor defenses, that's not likely to be the case going forward.

    I think Kovalev could be in danger of becoming the light-heavy version of late-stage Lucas Matthysse, ie. someone who's a hard puncher, but with an otherwise limited skillset and mental frailties. Kovalev has already accomplished significantly more than Matthysse, having been the division kingpin for a few years, but he just took a brutal defeat from a guy who, up until now, has really only existed on the fringes of the top level, and it seems like the only way for him is down now. I previously thought he would have whipped Adonis Stevenson, but now I'm not so sure because I think Stevenson's style would have been tailor-made to exploit his weaknesses.

    Anyone else have any thoughts or opinions on Sergey Kovalev?
  • yammy25
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    #2
    The **** you talking about showed no remorse when his opponent died? He literally did an interview stating it proper ****ed him up and he gave money to the family of the guy..

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    • Scopedog
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      #3
      Originally posted by yammy25
      The **** you talking about showed no remorse when his opponent died? He literally did an interview stating it proper ****ed him up and he gave money to the family of the guy..
      In the short term I'm sure it did effect him, but since he became prominent on the world stage he's also made comments to the effect that it just happens and it wasn't going to let it stall his career looking back on it. I don't think you can argue that it left any major, long-lasting psychological impact on him, because it clearly didn't diminish his gusto for badly hurting people, mocking his unconscious victims, openly disrespecting opponents after he just KOed them, etc.

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      • abracada
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        #4
        Originally posted by Scopedog
        I was going to post this in the fight thread but the post got too big for that. I think Kovalev's rise to prominence and fall from grace is a pretty interesting story and I think he's one of boxing's more interesting personalities, so I wanted to collect my thoughts on the way his career has gone in recent times.

        Kovalev ruled the division by fear for a long time, he was the guy with the reputation of being a huge puncher as well as a bit of a psycho who enjoys hurting people and knocking them out, and showed no remorse after one of his early opponents died. If I had to pick a moment that I feel sums up Kovalev's old image as a LHW monster, I'd either think of him gloating and taunting Ismail Sillakh as he lay unconscious by the edge of the ring, or him stating that he carried Jean Pascal through rounds just so he could keep hurting him and beating him up.

        However, and I know how corny and cliched this sounds by now, but Ward really did take something from him. Not so much his "soul" like I and many others have previously said, but his reputation for sure. After Ward beat him, despite how narrow and / or controversial those wins were, the image of the unbeatable juggernaut psycho Russian was more or less dispelled. He didn't help himself either, after the first loss he came across as a whiner and a sore loser, had a bit of a meltdown and lost the rapport he had with his trainer (very foolish, I always thought JDJ told him the right things in his corner.) As a result the allure of the dangerous psychopath ****er just kind of unravelled into an image of someone who was just a guy with a lot of pretty serious defects in his personality (self-centred, bad temper, bully, racist etc.)

        As soon as that allure was dispelled it was like the cloak dropped from around the weaknesses in his game too - having just seen his KO at the hands of Alvarez it just illustrates perfectly how dismal his defense is for a fighter at this level. The signs were there before, eg. the KD he took from Blake Caparello, but this fight really laid those flaws bare. I don't think he has a weak chin, in fact if his first fight against Pascal is anything to go by it's actually pretty strong. However, unless you have a Provodnikov level chin you just can't eat the kind of big bomb he took from Alvarez that led to the first KD and get away with it, and he just took it from a mile away with his left hand practically down by his waist. The other two KDs aren't much better - he has his hands up for the last one, but he was already too badly hurt and it's a weak guard that Alvarez just goes around to get the KO.



        He's still a dangerous puncher, as he was punishing Alvarez just a couple of rounds earlier, and he even has a few special trademark tricks that amplify the danger his power poses, but with the flaws in his defense exposed he's significantly less dangerous than he was once perceived to be - and at this stage of his career he's not likely to rectify those flaws, especially as if JDJ is to be believed he doesn't like being told what to do by his trainers and is overall a difficult man to deal with. He used to be able to get away with it because his reputation inspired fear and his opponents largely ran away from him, allowing him to lead off without having to worry too much about what was coming back, but now that guys know they can step up and blast back and probably do some damage because of his poor defenses, that's not likely to be the case going forward.

        I think Kovalev could be in danger of becoming the light-heavy version of late-stage Lucas Matthysse, ie. someone who's a hard puncher, but with an otherwise limited skillset and mental frailties. Kovalev has already accomplished significantly more than Matthysse, having been the division kingpin for a few years, but he just took a brutal defeat from a guy who, up until now, has really only existed on the fringes of the top level, and it seems like the only way for him is down now. I previously thought he would have whipped Adonis Stevenson, but now I'm not so sure because I think Stevenson's style would have been tailor-made to exploit his weaknesses.

        Anyone else have any thoughts or opinions on Sergey Kovalev?
        One word that is the reason for Kovalev being shot now...

        WARD

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        • Vlad_
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          #5
          Not a bad write up, but you’re wrong on some points.

          Kovalev showed plenty of remorse after Simakov’s death, and spoke about how deeply it affected him. He also donated his Chilemba purse to Simakov’s parents.

          Also, he was never knocked down by Caparello. Caparello stepped on Kovalev’s foot as Kovalev was backing up, and that made him lose balance and fall back.

          Otherwise not bad.

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          • yammy25
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            #6
            Originally posted by Scopedog
            In the short term I'm sure it did effect him, but since he became prominent on the world stage he's also made comments to the effect that it just happens and it wasn't going to let it stall his career looking back on it. I don't think you can argue that it left any major, long-lasting psychological impact on him, because it clearly didn't diminish his gusto for badly hurting people, mocking his unconscious victims, openly disrespecting opponents after he just KOed them, etc.
            All you're suggesting there is that because kovalev carried on boxing and didn't quit due to simakovs death , that means he showed no remorse and doesn't care?

            You're stating that because of that tragedy ... Kovalev can't be angry or Insulted and as a result of arguments and rivalries with other boxers later in his career can't take the piss out of them or enjoy his wins and gloat even if it is somewhat lacking in common decency?

            Kovalev mocking a KO'd opponent doesn't mean he shows no remorse for simakovs death at all. To blindly ignore his interviews to the contrary and his purse donation to his family isn't fair on the man imho.

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            • Scopedog
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              #7
              Originally posted by yammy25
              All you're suggesting there is that because kovalev carried on boxing and didn't quit due to simakovs death , that means he showed no remorse and doesn't care?

              You're stating that because of that tragedy ... Kovalev can't be angry or Insulted and as a result of arguments and rivalries with other boxers later in his career can't take the piss out of them or enjoy his wins and gloat even if it is somewhat lacking in common decency?

              Kovalev mocking a KO'd opponent doesn't mean he shows no remorse for simakovs death at all. To blindly ignore his interviews to the contrary and his purse donation to his family isn't fair on the man imho.
              Honestly I'm just calling it the way I see it. Other fighters who've been through similar situations tend to respond differently to that kind of tragedy happening. A recent example is Mike Perez who came into his fight with Magomed Abdusalamov running hot, but after Magomed became crippled as a result of that fight Perez became extremely dejected despite having won and hasn't looked the same since. The most famous example is Emile Griffith who cut way back on his aggression in his subsequent fights following the death of Benny Kid Paret as a result of their third fight. I think Kovalev's gusto for scoring brutal knockouts and inflicting pain honestly goes above and beyond what's appropriate even in normal circumstances for a boxing match, let alone for someone with that same kind of tragedy previously in their career - it definitely doesn't paint a picture of someone suffering from guilt and remorse from it.

              That said, when I said that I wasn't really trying to be unfair to him or paint him as a bad person because of it (I don't think he is a good person, but not only for this reason) but rather to point out how it built the aura of fear that he had that made him such an attraction and an intimidating prospect for opponents. The kind of person who could cause someone's death and continue to relish causing other people harm with his fists to such a degree is the kind of person most people are going to be afraid of, and that fear was a potent weapon for him before it was by and large nullified following his losses to Ward - that was the point I was trying to make.

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              • Grimmer
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                #8
                Becoming a father has probably effected him too. He’s a family man now, it’s softens you up a little. He’s not the hungry, overlooked contender with something to prove any more, as he was several years ago.

                Having the Hager to make it to the top and having the hunger to stay there are two different things.

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                • alexguiness
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                  #9
                  I don't think Ward 'took his soul' at all.

                  What really affected him was getting robbed in the first fight.

                  Great finish from Alvarez, Kovalev is done.

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                  • deanrw
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                    #10
                    All fighters fall from Grace. Some do faster than others. Kovalev was one of the lucky ones who reached the top.

                    Father time never loses. His love for alcohol probably sped up his decline. I noticed tonight even when he was winning, his refexes and timing we're not what they used to be. He is no longer crisp and quick.

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