Comments Thread For: Tyson Fury: I'm Determined To Destroy Wilder and Joshua!

[Holler]

Fury should be fighting folks like Bellew, Miller for a come back, not cruiserweights

I don't think it's realistic to expect him to jump in with top 10 ranked heavyweights, according to Boxrec 4 and 5...

Although there's a good argument that he should do most of this recovery via sparring rather than selling tickets to fight 3rd rate opposition.

But then this is boxing...

[P4Pdunny]

i reckon that Wlad performance was his peak, get in these fights, make your money but I can't see him beating either.

[lefthooklead]

Sorry this is a long response, but I think your response worthy of some substance.

Firstly, I am assuming we'll never again see the same Fury we did against Wlad. Partly because of the big lay off, but also because I believe he's got a psych condition that means you never really know which Fury will turn up. That night against Wlad it all came together for him, it really is a lottery if that'll happen again imho.

Okay, so let me hold that assumption for a second and instead think about what an average performance looks like from both men. As an average I think AJ is more capable. I see it being much like the Parker fight, Fury is better defensively, but he defends mostly with footwork, although not exactly the way Parker does, its the same principle. It won't be an explosive fight, it'll get messy, they'll get tied up a lot and in the end I think Joshua will land more solid shots and get the decision. I believe here AJ's disciplined boxing style is more effective, just in the same reason I think Wlad would have dealt with Fury better in his younger years, with faster reactions and counters. AJ is in those prime years.

Wilder vs Fury, now this one is more interesting because Wilder relies on being unorthodox, he throws shots from odd angles and is often off balance. I think this is tailor made for Fury whose ring IQ is soo high that'll he'll exploit Wilders fundamental boxing errors, he won't KO him, but he'll frustrate and pot shot him all night.

So, now you might be thinking, so how do I think Fury could not exploit AJ's seemingly robotic boxing in the same way as he would Wilder? This many might disagree with, but for me it's simple. AJ's boxing fundamentals are the best in the HW division. He does subtle hand defences and stays off the line of punches very well, his distance control is excellent, he's very strong in the clinch and he listens to his corner (then there's his power, which is very effective). Think about it like this, people criticise his Takam and Parker performances, but put aside his KO victories for a second, how many rounds of boxing has he actually lost? In all 21 fights, trust me, its not many, because his boxing his solid.

Cheers for the reply. Lots of interesting points here, and honestly, it's just a matter of how we perceive each fighters skillset and how we think it'll be applied to the others. I did have a longer reply but my computer restarted..(turns out in hindsight this is a long post)

Basically, I agree with your point about AJ having good fundamentals, he's basically text book. It's for that exact reason why I think he struggles with Fury. He struggles with movement, angles, and - most importantly - feints and twitches. When he's against that he looks quite one dimensional I think, he's not really that able to switch up his work to open up opportunities. Don't get me wrong, I think he's got skills and he's rapidly improved but I don't think he'll be able to work out Fury. I think he'll get very frustrated and will constantly be unsettled and off balance, unable to get off.

I personally think that his defence is better than his offence (until he gets gassed and can't move). That might sound strange as he's known as a KO monster but as you say he judges distance very well and springs back, although usually in straight lines, very fast and gets out of range well. He also uses his hands well and can slip and counter pretty good. My thing is this though, he's very reactive to feints and twitches and Fury is the MASTER at this. Josh is best at mid - short range as that's when he gets off his combos. I can't see the fight being there unless Fury decides to come forward, and I can't see him doing that until he knows Josh is tired and there for the taking. As long as the fight is at long range, and Fury's superior footwork, reach and movement will keep it there, then I see Fury befuddling, outworking and outscoring him and then potentially stopping him late if he tires. That's just my opinion, AJ has always got a chance and he's improved a lot and keeps improving. One thing is for sure, we'll only see how good they both are when they fight!

But in reality I think the competitiveness it will all depend on how Tyson comes back. He may never regain that form and Josh may wipe him out easily. I have a feeling he'll be just as good, but maybe I am biased. All the reports I heard about from people he's sparred and people who have watched him closely have said he looks phenomenal. We'll see. I think mentally he'll be in a better place now, stronger as a result of what's happened. I hope so, I am a Fury fan, I've watched him throughout his career and was in Dusseldorf against Klit. That was a long, long time ago though. Hopefully he comes back good because the Wilder, Joshua, Fury trio at the top of the division is very good for boxing.

[sportbuddha]

A very good post. I thought this was a particularly interesting point.

Much is made of Fury's physical fitness, obviously he had a lot of weight to shift and that could come back to haunt him down the line. Far less is said about his mental health.

I like Tyson F for all his faults, but when he's interviewed beneath the bluster and bravado there seems a vulnerability. Is there perhaps a strain from embodying the persona that he's adopted and feels that he has to live up to?

He rapidly disintegrated after the Dusseldorf victory. Yes there was the drug test and the non sporting media storm that engulfed him and that would've created a massive strain. Even so, if you think about how disciplined the guys at the top are then even the scrutiny during the buildup to a big fight could prove destabilising for Fury.

I don't know what it is, but I think there's a vulnerability that you don't often see in elite level boxers.

Yes, thanks for the response, that’s exactly what I’m getting at. I reminds a bit of his namesake, he was tortured soul as well, vunerable is a good word for it, but in furys case he’s probably even smarter, so he gets into some really dark places.

Look at how he behaved once he won, his egotism peaked, it was like he was having a manic episode and you couldn’t shut him up for weeks as he said one ****** thing after another, then he went quiet and then just nose dived.

It seems to me partly the reason he’s made himself the under dog again, kind of a self destruction, was that he can’t cope with being champion, he needs to be the challenger.

But, will he ever truly drop the baggage of that win in Dusseldorf, I think when he eventually faces AJ, and the pressure is on for a repeat performance it’s not going to be there.

[sportbuddha]

Cheers for the reply. Lots of interesting points here, and honestly, it's just a matter of how we perceive each fighters skillset and how we think it'll be applied to the others. I did have a longer reply but my computer restarted..(turns out in hindsight this is a long post)

Basically, I agree with your point about AJ having good fundamentals, he's basically text book. It's for that exact reason why I think he struggles with Fury. He struggles with movement, angles, and - most importantly - feints and twitches. When he's against that he looks quite one dimensional I think, he's not really that able to switch up his work to open up opportunities. Don't get me wrong, I think he's got skills and he's rapidly improved but I don't think he'll be able to work out Fury. I think he'll get very frustrated and will constantly be unsettled and off balance, unable to get off.

I personally think that his defence is better than his offence (until he gets gassed and can't move). That might sound strange as he's known as a KO monster but as you say he judges distance very well and springs back, although usually in straight lines, very fast and gets out of range well. He also uses his hands well and can slip and counter pretty good. My thing is this though, he's very reactive to feints and twitches and Fury is the MASTER at this. Josh is best at mid - short range as that's when he gets off his combos. I can't see the fight being there unless Fury decides to come forward, and I can't see him doing that until he knows Josh is tired and there for the taking. As long as the fight is at long range, and Fury's superior footwork, reach and movement will keep it there, then I see Fury befuddling, outworking and outscoring him and then potentially stopping him late if he tires. That's just my opinion, AJ has always got a chance and he's improved a lot and keeps improving. One thing is for sure, we'll only see how good they both are when they fight!

But in reality I think the competitiveness it will all depend on how Tyson comes back. He may never regain that form and Josh may wipe him out easily. I have a feeling he'll be just as good, but maybe I am biased. All the reports I heard about from people he's sparred and people who have watched him closely have said he looks phenomenal. We'll see. I think mentally he'll be in a better place now, stronger as a result of what's happened. I hope so, I am a Fury fan, I've watched him throughout his career and was in Dusseldorf against Klit. That was a long, long time ago though. Hopefully he comes back good because the Wilder, Joshua, Fury trio at the top of the division is very good for boxing.

Interesting points, I think what we’re agreeing to disagree is whether AJ’s style is the one that can give Fury problems or play into his hands. It’s def an interesting match up for the reasons we both outlined. Like you, I hope Fury returns with style, the division will benefit.

On the mental side of things, not sure, I think he has some long term issues there, will be interesting to see if the new trainer is a good thing or not.

[Removed Now]

Sorry but Lennox was a monster and I believe Lenoox would have destroy all f f we have today in the HW division, in one single night.

We don't have to agree on my opinion. However thank you for your insight . I never cared for Lennox I don't care what anybody says. I bet Lennox would fold Tyson fury, AJ idk about Deontay (Lennox chin was weak) but Lennox also got folded by worst fighters himself.

[Removed Now]

By this logic if Fury beats Wilder and then AJ beats Fury, AJ will belong on the list above Lewis? Just checking. I do rate AJ highly, btw, and IMO, if he learns from Wlad's mistakes and continues to improve, he has the potential to surpass Klitschko's record and end up in top 10-15.

Well Tyson beat Klitschko when he was on top and had the record . AJ beat him after Fury did so no by "Your Logic ". I would never put AJ over Lennox if he beats a Tyson fury who beats Deontay.

[alexjust]

Well Tyson beat Klitschko when he was on top and had the record . AJ beat him after Fury did so no by "Your Logic ". I would never put AJ over Lennox if he beats a Tyson fury who beats Deontay.

I'll disagree with you here: Klitschko vs Fury and Klitschko vs AJ - no comparison between the "Klitschkos", these were like two different fighters. Klitschko was completely off when he fought Fury and, while Fury beat him fair and square and nothing should be taken away from him, I thought that something was really wrong with Wlad mentally on that night. I'd rate Wlad's performance against AJ much higher. Besides, not once Fury had Wlad in trouble.

P.S. Why would you never rate AJ above Lennox? We don't know yet how AJ will be in 5 years.

[Removed Now]

I'll disagree with you here: Klitschko vs Fury and Klitschko vs AJ - no comparison between the "Klitschkos", these were like two different fighters. Klitschko was completely off when he fought Fury and, while Fury beat him fair and square and nothing should be taken away from him, I thought that something was really wrong with Wlad mentally on that night. I'd rate Wlad's performance against AJ much higher. Besides, not once Fury had Wlad in trouble.

P.S. Why would you never rate AJ above Lennox? We don't know yet how AJ will be in 5 years.

Ok, that's fair but I don't agree . Tysons style is never going to have anybody in "trouble". Maybe tysons fighting style took klitscko mentally out of it. I feel like people are discrediting this man.

Just looking at the current landscape AJ doesn't have much to choose from in regards to elite competition. Lewis even though fought a few HOF's that were no longer in their prime he still did fight them . We can't even get the Wildier fight signed yet. Do you think AJ could had beaten a rid**** bowe or Holyfield (even though Lewis got him on the decline ) idk.

[alexjust]

Ok, that's fair but I don't agree . Tysons style is never going to have anybody in "trouble". Maybe tysons fighting style took klitscko mentally out of it. I feel like people are discrediting this man.

Just looking at the current landscape AJ doesn't have much to choose from in regards to elite competition. Lewis even though fought a few HOF's that were no longer in their prime he still did fight them . We can't even get the Wildier fight signed yet. Do you think AJ could had beaten a rid**** bowe or Holyfield (even though Lewis got him on the decline ) idk.

I think the reason there is that perception that Fury didn't get all the credit is because people just can't believe Wlad could have lost that way. To me, their fight was a fluke on Wlad's part and they do have an unfinished business (even though Fury clearly beat Wlad that night, it was not even close and absolutely give Fury credit for an honest win over Wlad). Sometimes a boxer loses not because he was outmatched by a better opponent, but because he, himself, gave up the fight. No way a journeyman Ross Purrity is better than Klitschko, right? And Klitschko still lost to him because for whatever reason he just wasn't there on the night. If only they had a second fight, then we would have a definitive answer and, if Fury had won the second time, his stock would have gone up through the roof. Fury did not fight world class elite heavyweights until Klitschko, so, IMO, the jury on Fury is still out there..

I try not to engage in imaginary fights discussions. Incidentally, Lewis did not beat Mike Tyson when Mike was in his prime. That would have been hell of a fight though!

We cannot convincingly compare the legends of the past with the legends in the making. An argument may be made that current champs should beat the previous ones because we evolve, we get stronger, we have more training methods and supplements available to us and, more importantly, we learn while standing on the shoulders of the past and use their strengths and weaknesses. Whether this means that AJ (whenever he reaches his prime) would have beat Lennox in his prime, I don't know. Not necessarily, maybe not too much time past between them, maybe Lennox was just that good, but that's all speculation anyway...