Rid**** Bowe vs Deontay Wilder would've been interesting

[No punch power]

david price stands better than your arguments

Price stands better against Lennox Lewis and other top fighters in the 1990's and before, than he would against even a journeyman today. Because of how weak, feather fisted and powerless past heavyweights were, in comparison to the most powerful, and one of the toughest boxers in history in Deontay Wilder.

[Mr Objecitivity]

Somebody ban this idiot.

I'm immune to any such thing!

[Mindgames]

Mitch Green was a part time boxer lmfao, he had an iron chin yet got stopped? 90% of his opponents had losing records, you're just proving my point. Even Mitch Green gets overrated FFS.

Wilder's last 5 opponents have a combined record of 206-12 and the average KO ratio is around 70%. You'll downplay him while hyping up Mitch Green's chin.

There isn't a single modern fighter that could take on 6-4 journeymen and not get completely annihilated by the media/fans like JCC SR. did. Look at Ward years ago when he fought Paul Smith and wanted to fight undefeated Rohan Murdock, NSAC literally wouldn't even sanction that bout.

Name a fighter like made a physical transformation like Fury, did Ali? No. Tyson? No. Lewis? No. Holmes? No. Only Holyfield comes close but even when he got into better condition he was gassing and getting hurt vs Moorer and dropped by Toney. The majority of past HW's never improved their conditioning, they straight up got fat as they got older.

Unlucky, Mitch Green was a top five amateur for years, he had a drug problem, but none of it changes he was never floored amateur or pro and took Tysons best for ten rounds including a punch that put he's dental work in the 5th row because he had a good chin. He wasn't flattened at all in he's last fight. You were caught out lying to support your garbage position. Deontays record and Mitch Greens chin have nothing to with anything really. Simply Deontays record coming up was awful, fighting nobodies and old blown up supermiddles, guys with no power and still managing to get floored by Sconiers. Chavez Snr fouhht 20 plus world champs and several hall of famers.Wilder hasn't, all your deflection can't change that. Btw, it still doesnt change the criteria for a good chin being having proven it by enduring shots from a guy who's a good puncher at world level. It still doesn't change that Ortiz hadn't done so or proven this and you've failed to do it. Now youre just embarrassing yourself further. Fury gets very fat between fights, we all know this. This isn't something to be commended, nor is it that unusual for heavyweights. Holyfield hadn't got into better condition for Toney he was simply not the same fighter anymore, shot is the word we use in boxing. Youre all over the place to be honest but I do enjoy our chats. Your posts are abit of a laughing stock on this site but good on you for trying to baffle everyone. I'm abit of a bull****ter myself but I do like listening to an expert.😂

[No punch power]

Unlucky, Mitch Green was a top five amateur for years, he had a drug problem, but none of it changes he was never floored amateur or pro and took Tysons best for ten rounds including a punch that put he's dental work in the 5th row because he had a good chin. He wasn't flattened at all in he's last fight. You were caught out lying to support your garbage position. Deontays record and Mitch Greens chin have nothing to with anything really. Simply Deontays record coming up was awful, fighting nobodies and old blown up supermiddles, guys with no power and still managing to get floored by Sconiers. Chavez Snr fouhht 20 plus world champs and several hall of famers.Wilder hasn't, all your deflection can't change that. Btw, it still doesnt change the criteria for a good chin being having proven it by enduring shots from a guy who's a good puncher at world level. It still doesn't change that Ortiz hadn't done so or proven this and you've failed to do it. Now youre just embarrassing yourself further. Fury gets very fat between fights, we all know this. This isn't something to be commended, nor is it that unusual for heavyweights. Holyfield hadn't got into better condition for Toney he was simply not the same fighter anymore, shot is the word we use in boxing. Youre all over the place to be honest but I do enjoy our chats. Your posts are abit of a laughing stock on this site but good on you for trying to baffle everyone. I'm abit of a bull****ter myself but I do like listening to an expert.��

How does Mitch Green have a proven chin but Luis Ortiz doesn't?

Mike Tyson is the only supposed puncher Mitch Green fought and lasted the distance without getting stopped.

Deontay Wilder is the only puncher Luis Ortiz fought and was stopped / knocked out inside the distance by Wilder.

So if anything, it's more a case of both having equally proven chins, at the time of Mitch Green fighting Mike Tyson and at the time of Luis Ortiz fighting Deontay Wilder. Difference is, Deontay Wilder managed to KO Luis Ortiz whilst Mike Tyson failed to KO Mitch Green.

So if anything, it's more a case of Mike Tyson lacking punching power, compared to Deontay Wilder. Rather than Mitch Green having a better / more proven chin than Luis Ortiz.

[Mindgames]

How does Mitch Green have a proven chin but Luis Ortiz doesn't?

Mike Tyson is the only supposed puncher Mitch Green fought and lasted the distance without getting stopped.

Deontay Wilder is the only puncher Luis Ortiz fought and was stopped / knocked out inside the distance by Wilder.

So if anything, it's more a case of both having equally proven chins, at the time of Mitch Green fighting Mike Tyson and at the time of Luis Ortiz fighting Deontay Wilder. Difference is, Deontay Wilder managed to KO Luis Ortiz whilst Mike Tyson failed to KO Mitch Green.

So if anything, it's more a case of Mike Tyson lacking punching power, compared to Deontay Wilder. Rather than Mitch Green having a better / more proven chin than Luis Ortiz.

Nope,when Green fought Tyson he passed the test, never floored, never truly hurt. When Ortiz fought Wilder he was hurt, went down and was stopped. Its a case of Ortiz lacking the chin more than anything else. Btw, you know you're replying to me on your other account right? Ooops.

[No punch power]

Nope,when Green fought Tyson he passed the test, never floored, never truly hurt. When Ortiz fought Wilder he was hurt, went down and was stopped. Its a case of Ortiz lacking the chin more than anything else. Btw, you know you're replying to me on your other account right? Ooops.

Your argument is a circular one. I can just as easily claim that Mitch Green survived against Mike Tyson because Mike Tyson's power was what didn't pass the test. Not because of anything to do with Mitch Green's chin. Mitch Green never faced any other notable power puncher.

Whilst Luis Ortiz was stopped by Deontay Wilder because Wilder's power was what passed the test, rather than Ortiz's chin failing.

[Mindgames]

Your argument is a circular one. I can just as easily claim that Mitch Green survived against Mike Tyson because Mike Tyson's power was what didn't pass the test. Not because of anything to do with Mitch Green's chin. Mitch Green never faced any other notable power puncher.

Whilst Luis Ortiz was stopped by Deontay Wilder because Wilder's power was what passed the test, rather than Ortiz's chin failing.

No you can't because Tyson was known throughout he's career as a hard puncher, both in terms of the amount of guys he left on the canvas and the fear and respect a knockout record like he's had in the game. You see, having a great chin means you've proven it by taking great shots from big punchers and standing up when most wouldn't. It doesn't mean never getting hurt or knocked down ever. Now I'm saying there was no proof Ortiz had an iron chin, not because Wilder knocked him down, but because he had never proven he could take exceptional punishment in any previous fight. To say someone has an iron chin, they need to have proven it on occasion before. Ortiz hadn't, so there's no proof. The claim needs evidence. Green proved it because he handled shots that left others in a heap. Ortiz didn't, although I will give you that he wasn't a well man when he fought Wilder. However, he'd never taken shots from a renowned puncher previous, so we don't know. Logic.

[Sheldon312]

This thread really got out of hand

[No punch power]

No you can't because Tyson was known throughout he's career as a hard puncher, both in terms of the amount of guys he left on the canvas and the fear and respect a knockout record like he's had in the game. You see, having a great chin means you've proven it by taking great shots from big punchers and standing up when most wouldn't. It doesn't mean never getting hurt or knocked down ever. Now I'm saying there was no proof Ortiz had an iron chin, not because Wilder knocked him down, but because he had never proven he could take exceptional punishment in any previous fight. To say someone has an iron chin, they need to have proven it on occasion before. Ortiz hadn't, so there's no proof. The claim needs evidence. Green proved it because he handled shots that left others in a heap. Ortiz didn't, although I will give you that he wasn't a well man when he fought Wilder. However, he'd never taken shots from a renowned puncher previous, so we don't know. Logic.

Or maybe Mike Tyson doesn't hit anywhere near as hard as Deontay Wilder. Hence why he couldn't KO an opponent who was never KO'ed previously like Mitch Green whilst Deontay Wilder hits significantly harder, hence why he was able to KO an opponent never KO'ed before in Luis Ortiz?

Are you getting the point now?

What do you think would happen if Deontay Wilder faced the same bums and nobodies like Mitch Green that Mike Tyson faced? People complain and slate Deontay Wilder heavily for fighting bums and nobodies but at least he knocks all of them out, unlike the feather fisted / weak punching Mike Tyson who landed everything but the kitchen sink on the bum that is Mitch Green but they bounced off like nothing, making it seem like Mike Tyson had the punch power of a little girl.

In the heavyweight division, if you've never even been dropped before, isn't that a sign of a strong chin? Considering pretty much every heavyweight hits hard that weighs above 220 pounds?

[Mindgames]

Or maybe Mike Tyson doesn't hit anywhere near as hard as Deontay Wilder. Hence why he couldn't KO an opponent who was never KO'ed previously like Mitch Green whilst Deontay Wilder hits significantly harder, hence why he was able to KO an opponent never KO'ed before in Luis Ortiz?

Are you getting the point now?

What do you think would happen if Deontay Wilder faced the same bums and nobodies like Mitch Green that Mike Tyson faced? People complain and slate Deontay Wilder heavily for fighting bums and nobodies but at least he knocks all of them out, unlike the feather fisted / weak punching Mike Tyson who landed everything but the kitchen sink on the bum that is Mitch Green but they bounced off like nothing, making it seem like Mike Tyson had the punch power of a little girl.

In the heavyweight division, if you've never even been dropped before, isn't that a sign of a strong chin? Considering pretty much every heavyweight hits hard that weighs above 220 pounds?

I'm getting the point alright. You have a problem with compression. I don't have to prove Ortiz didn't have a great chin, you have to prove he did, since that was the claim, that Ortiz had an "iron" chin. Since he fought nobody comparable to Mike Tyson, who's knockout record, percentage, heavyweight championship fights and highlight reel proves he's a puncher, Ortiz can't claim to have passed the test Green did.Not every heavy punches the same, and some of the best punchers have been under 220 BTW.Yes other fighters have fought bums but only two of Wilders opponents were vaguely top ten, one had been stopped by a nobody and one was suffering from an illness. At the point Audley Harrison was entering round one against Sprott, he'd never been dropped either. Has he got an Iron chin? No, of course not, level of opposition matters, and Deontays is very low, but Ortiz was also very low. Molina taking Deontay late proves he's not a superman. You saw what AJ did to the same guy right?