Comments Thread For: WBC Prez Says Critics Need To Back Off: Canelo NOT a Cheater!

[Bjl12]

I got no pitchfork. I'm still on the fence with if this is a meat issue or a PED issue.

But I am saying once you're caught with OST you're supposed to be suspended or at a minimum the circumstances need to be worked out. Thats how it works in every other sport. And thats how it usually works in boxing, but sometimes in boxing it doesn't work like that.

And it don't matter if you test negative 2 hrs later or the next day. OST is done so you can't use at any time. You get caught once & you're done everywhere else EXCEPT for boxing. People get suspended in other sports for merely saying they used a substance without having tested positive for it.

You seem confused. Let me try to figure out what we're talking about:

But I am saying once you're caught with OST you're supposed to be suspended or at a minimum the circumstances need to be worked out. Thats how it works in every other sport. And thats how it usually works in boxing, but sometimes in boxing it doesn't work like that.

So Ca$hnelo is doing OST VOLUNTARILY...that's what VADA is. He failed a VADA test. False positives happen in EVERY type of test...HIV, Cancer, recreational drugs, and of course PED's.

So you have to look at what he failed for. Was it anabolic steroids? Oh, it was just Clenbuterol. What's the purpose of taking Clenbuterol ~3 months away from a fight??? Because the weight loss properties will definitely NOT offer any gains that far away.

Now, Clenbuterol happens to be a famous drug in Mexico since a FIFA U-17 tournament had hundreds (literally more than 200) kids test positive specifically for Clenbuterol. Other boxers have tested positive for the same substance. And the athletes that admitted to intentionally doping..used it CLOSE TO COMPETITION.

There is no performance advantage to using Clenbuterol ~3 months before a fight. Ca$hnelo has been doing VADA for ~5 years. This is the first "failed" test with a drug that offers no competitive advantage ~3 months away from a fight in a country where that specific drug has been found in meat supply for Y E A R S.


So when you say "OST is done for this reason or that reason". Gennady doesn't do OST. Ward didn't do OST. Kovalev and Spence don't do OST (VADA). There are only a handful of fighters doing VADA. Understand that Ca$hnelo did not get jammed up by "the commission". He volunteered specimens for the past ~5 years to prove his cleanliness. It's honestly not rocket science if you're not biased.

The evidence is very simple. However, the haters will eat this up the same way they did when Floyd said "my heath is more important"...out of context.

Floyd wanted the Manny fight long before it happened and Manny didn't want it. Period.

[Eff Pandas]

that will likely hurt him more than the result..... like dodo-Byrd's score in the 1st fight

Idk. Morales & Vargas had similar situations & they didn't seem to get THAT damaged by it.

So Ca$hnelo is doing OST VOLUNTARILY...that's what VADA is. He failed a VADA test. False positives happen in EVERY type of test...HIV, Cancer, recreational drugs, and of course PED's.

Positive positives happen to. And seemingly Canelo & his team have already said if it was anything it was the meat situation in Mexico.

Okay fair play. Tell me where you got your meat & lets to investigate if other meat that place sells shows up as having this substance in it.

So you have to look at what he failed for. Was it anabolic steroids?

Its a banned substance. Thats all that matter. You can argue certain things should matter more or less & I'd agree with you. BUT thats not how the system works right now.

Other boxers have tested positive for the same substance. And the athletes that admitted to intentionally doping..used it CLOSE TO COMPETITION.

I've only heard of this happening to three boxers previously (Morales, Vargas & Browne) & those situations were sketchy to as I recall them. What other boxers has this happened to? I'd be curious to look into their situation.

I do know when this happens to other athletes they have gotten f#cked via suspensions.

There is no performance advantage to using Clenbuterol ~3 months before a fight.

Thats not necessarily true. One of the things I've heard this is good for is leaning out. If Canelo is a lil too big going into training camp using this substance to lean out wouldn't be a bad idea to insure his camp is a legit training camp for the full duration over being fat camp for a couple weeks.

The evidence is very simple. However, the haters will eat this up the same way they did when Floyd said "my heath is more important"...out of context.

The evidence hasn't even been looked into yet from my understanding. Where did Canelo get this meat? Was it from his trainers place (who apparently own a butcher or some such sh^t like that)? Was it from some random street vendor? Was it at some Burger King in San Diego or wherever he lives when he's not in Mexico. This needs to be looked into & there SHOULD be a reasonable effort to see how likely that this is intentional or unintentional usage.

Granted there won't be cuz boxing is sketchy as f#ck with this sorta thing + they are already doubling down on defending Canelo over looking into what the facts look like & thats my real problem with this. The thing is Canelo is hurting more peoples bank account then just his own if this fight were to get canceled regardless if this situation is a legit PED situation so no one who is involved is gonna put boxing before their own paycheck...and sh^t if I was in there shoes I might not either cuz boxing is what it is & one cat "standing up" for what makes sense in every other sport isn't gonna make a mark in boxing.

Floyd wanted the Manny fight long before it happened and Manny didn't want it. Period.

I don't got a mfing clue what this has to do with ANYTHING with this situation.

[aboutfkntime]

You seem confused. Let me try to figure out what we're talking about:

So Ca$hnelo is doing OST VOLUNTARILY...that's what VADA is. He failed a VADA test. False positives happen in EVERY type of test...HIV, Cancer, recreational drugs, and of course PED's.

So you have to look at what he failed for. Was it anabolic steroids? Oh, it was just Clenbuterol. What's the purpose of taking Clenbuterol ~3 months away from a fight??? Because the weight loss properties will definitely NOT offer any gains that far away.

Now, Clenbuterol happens to be a famous drug in Mexico since a FIFA U-17 tournament had hundreds (literally more than 200) kids test positive specifically for Clenbuterol. Other boxers have tested positive for the same substance. And the athletes that admitted to intentionally doping..used it CLOSE TO COMPETITION.

There is no performance advantage to using Clenbuterol ~3 months before a fight. Ca$hnelo has been doing VADA for ~5 years. This is the first "failed" test with a drug that offers no competitive advantage ~3 months away from a fight in a country where that specific drug has been found in meat supply for Y E A R S.


So when you say "OST is done for this reason or that reason". Gennady doesn't do OST. Ward didn't do OST. Kovalev and Spence don't do OST (VADA). There are only a handful of fighters doing VADA. Understand that Ca$hnelo did not get jammed up by "the commission". He volunteered specimens for the past ~5 years to prove his cleanliness. It's honestly not rocket science if you're not biased.

The evidence is very simple. However, the haters will eat this up the same way they did when Floyd said "my heath is more important"...out of context.

Floyd wanted the Manny fight long before it happened and Manny didn't want it. Period.

I am NOT making excuses for Canelo..... I think that this issue should be FULLY investigated, and if it is possible to perform a higher standard of testing (someone suggested hair follicles, etc) then it should happen immediately, no question

but what I want to know is this.....

is there any PROOF (links) that Canelo has been undertaking VADA voluntarily for the past 5 years?

I know that Sulaiman said Canelo has been tested for his last 12 fights, but is there any proof of that?..... and I mean VADA testing, NOT standard commission testing..... and, is he doing the VADA testing voluntarily?

because, here is the situation.....

* Canelo tested positive, so he IS guilty

* it is possible that it was accidental

* if the story is..... 1) Canelo voluntarily subjected himself to VADA testing for HIS LAST 12 FIGHTS..... 2) 4x EXPERTS have all stated that the result was consistent with contaminated meat..... then the outrage/impact of his positive result could be more than a little overblown

we have Sanchez wanting to cancel the fight lol, and we got golov-muppets running around insisting that Canelo is roided to the gills

but I want proof that Canelo has been undertaking VADA voluntarily for five years, or however long they say..... surely there must be an article mentioning that he enrolled with VADA from back then?

if so, then there is probably nothing to see here..... but, the burden of proof should be on Canelo because he got popped

[aboutfkntime]

one other thing.....

I know that VADA is WADA..... or at least, it should be

but, is VADA all inclusive..... as-in, one standard program for all ?

so..... do you enrol, PERIOD..... and are then tested 365-24/7 ?

or..... do they only work with fighters for a contracted period ?

coz yea..... if Canelo has been enrolled with VADA for his last 12 fights (and I would definitely need to see proof of that)..... and VADA have tested him randomly 365-24/7..... then, that almost certainly proves that this is accidental contamination

no way could he have pushed his luck for the last 12 fights

[oscar9992]

Haha, defending their ca$h cow as usual.

[Tom Cruise]

This is genuinely embarrassing from Sulaiman.

[CLUBBER!]

Cheater cheater pumpkin eater

[Citizen Koba]

one other thing.....

I know that VADA is WADA..... or at least, it should be

but, is VADA all inclusive..... as-in, one standard program for all ?

so..... do you enrol, PERIOD..... and are then tested 365-24/7 ?

or..... do they only work with fighters for a contracted period ?

coz yea..... if Canelo has been enrolled with VADA for his last 12 fights (and I would definitely need to see proof of that)..... and VADA have tested him randomly 365-24/7..... then, that almost certainly proves that this is accidental contamination

no way could he have pushed his luck for the last 12 fights

VADA is a testing organisation and it will do whatever it's paid to do, I think (ie tailored contracts). As part of the CPB it is contracted to conduct random testing throughout the year on certain fighters with WBC rankings, but it's more traditional role was to conduct testing per contract for a fixed duration usually included in the fighter contracts on a case by case basis. Of course it's possible to contract them voluntarily - was it Donaire who did this? - to carry out a year round testing program if a fighter wished, although if Canelo did so I've found no evidence of it.

It's actually quite hard to pin down. My understanding is that Canelo undergoes VADA testing on fight by fight basis/as contracted rather than 24/7 365, otherwise issues like the testing for the Smith fight would have been a non-issue. His dropping of the WBC strap removed the obligation for enrollment in the CPB of course, though that does not mean he did not continue year round testing.

I don't know whether it counts as actual evidence or if it's reading too much into it, but the VADA site entry for Canelo says (my emphasis):

VADA welcomes Saul “Canelo” Alvarez back to our program as he prepares for his 5/5/18 rematch against Gennady Golovkin.

http://vada-testing.org/saul-canelo-alvarez/

Which could imply that he hasn't been under continual supervision, however. EDIT : scratch that, they say 'welcome back' about other fighters too - including those in the CPB.

EDIT: Also this from VADA:

Professional athletes will volunteer to be subject to unannounced testing at any time during the eight weeks prior to a scheduled fight.

http://vada-testing.org/about-vada/

Which presumably differentiates 'standard' testing from the CPB, although the fact that Canelo's tests took place prior to the 8 week cut-off is puzzling unless he had already agreed to CPB testing or the contracted testing period for the Golovkin fight extended back longer than 8 weeks from fight date.

ALSO this from BN24:

Six fights have contracted services of VADA for Antidoping Services:

Deontay Wilder vs. Gerald Washington / Canelo Alvarez vs. Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. / Gennady Golovkin vs. Daniel Jacobs / Deontay Wilder vs. Andrzej Wawrzyk / Roman Gonzalez vs. Srisaket Sor Rungvisai / Eleider Alvarez vs. Lucian Bute.

Which could (but does not necessarily) suggest than Canelo was not under continual testing at the time.

EDIT: This however (also BN24) indicates that Canelo was under the CPB in 2017 at least.

28 fighters have been tested out of competition with random selection: Jermell Charlo – Andre Dirrell – Matt Korobov – Constantin Bejenaru – Ivan Baranchyk – Cletus Seldin – Gerald Washington – Erickson Lubin – Andrzej Fonfara – Paulie Malinaggi – Lucian Bute – Eleider Alvarez – Chris Algieri – Peter Quillin – Cesar Juarez – Oscar Valdez – Tevin Farmer – Sergey Kovalev – Edgar Jimenez – Rogelio Medina – Victor Mendez – Andrezj Wawrzyk – Deontay Wilder – Alexander Povetkin – Nawaphon Kaikhana – Deontay Wilder – Canelo Alvarez – Julio Cesar Chavez Jr.

[Bjl12]

one other thing.....

I know that VADA is WADA..... or at least, it should be

but, is VADA all inclusive..... as-in, one standard program for all ?

so..... do you enrol, PERIOD..... and are then tested 365-24/7 ?

or..... do they only work with fighters for a contracted period ?

coz yea..... if Canelo has been enrolled with VADA for his last 12 fights (and I would definitely need to see proof of that)..... and VADA have tested him randomly 365-24/7..... then, that almost certainly proves that this is accidental contamination

no way could he have pushed his luck for the last 12 fights

VADA is full OSDT...365 and 24/7

As part of the voluntary testing program that Canelo Alvarez insisted on ahead of his May 5 fight, one of his results came back positive for trace levels of Clenbuterol, consistent with meat contamination that has impacted dozens of athletes in Mexico over the last years.

As Daniel Eichner, Director of SMRTL, the WADA-accredited lab that conducted the tests stated in his letter today, “These values are all within the range of what is expected from meat contamination.”

Upon receiving this information, Golden Boy immediately notified the Nevada State Athletic Commission and Gennady Golovkin’s promoter, Tom Loeffler.

As has been planned, Canelo will immediately move his training camp from Mexico to the United States and will submit to any number and variety of additional tests that VADA deems necessary ahead of and after May 5.

Added Canelo: ”I am an athlete who respects the sport and this surprises me and bothers me because it had never happened to me. I will submit to all the tests that require me to clarify this embarrassing situation and I trust that at the end the truth will prevail.”

Canelo has tested clean dozens of times over the course of his previous 12 fights.

Direct quote from VADA press release.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bloodyelbow.com/platform/amp/2018/3/5/17082470/canelo-alvarez-banned-substance-clenbuterol-gennady-golovkin-rematch-boxing-news

[Bjl12]

VADA is a testing organisation and it will do whatever it's paid to do, I think (ie tailored contracts). As part of the CPB it is contracted to conduct random testing throughout the year on certain fighters with WBC rankings, but it's more traditional role was to conduct testing per contract for a fixed duration usually included in the fighter contracts on a case by case basis. Of course it's possible to contract them voluntarily - was it Donaire who did this? - to carry out a year round testing program if a fighter wished, although if Canelo did so I've found no evidence of it.

It's actually quite hard to pin down. My understanding is that Canelo undergoes VADA testing on fight by fight basis/as contracted rather than 24/7 365, otherwise issues like the testing for the Smith fight would have been a non-issue. His dropping of the WBC strap removed the obligation for enrollment in the CPB of course, though that does not mean he did not continue year round testing.

I don't know whether it counts as actual evidence or if it's reading too much into it, but the VADA site entry for Canelo says (my emphasis):

http://vada-testing.org/saul-canelo-alvarez/

Which could imply that he hasn't been under continual supervision, however. EDIT : scratch that, they say 'welcome back' about other fighters too - including those in the CPB.

EDIT: Also this from VADA:

http://vada-testing.org/about-vada/

Which presumably differentiates 'standard' testing from the CPB, although the fact that Canelo's tests took place prior to the 8 week cut-off is puzzling unless he had already agreed to CPB testing or the contracted testing period for the Golovkin fight extended back longer than 8 weeks from fight date.

ALSO this from BN24:



Which could (but does not necessarily) suggest than Canelo was not under continual testing at the time.

EDIT: This however (also BN24) indicates that Canelo was under the CPB in 2017 at least.

So...although it's not "in writing"...pretty clear.

Ca$hnelo in CBP in 2017.

Ca$hnelo tested more than 8 weeks prior to fight (something VADA doesn't normally do...unless:

1-It's in their contract
2-Ca$hnelo is just in CBP...like in 2017

Damn. How confuse. ***** Mongloid. What wonder