Floyd Mayweather is in my top 3 of all time let the hate begin!

[robertzimmerman]

People who claim Canelo was too young when he faced Floyd are a symptom of this generations need to baby grown men. 23 is a man, not a boy, and Canelo was 42-0 with 30 knockouts when he faced Floyd which means he was older and had more professional experience than Benitez had when Benitez faced Leonard. Canelo also already had 6 successful title defenses of his WBC light middleweight belt before he lost to Mayweather.

Again, statistics don't allow for circumstances.

[Johnwoo8686]

My original point is that just because Benitez was 21 doesn't mean he was inferior to Canelo by 23. It's clear he'd accomplished more and had defeated elite fighters including two hall of famers one of which was great. Benitez at 21 had proven a lot more than Canelo by 23 and that's a fact.

Split decision talk is irrelevant. Those are horrible scorecards those fights weren't either way type fights.

Cervantes wasn't past his prime because as I said he had been active and on a big winning streak in addition to having perhaps his best win a few months prior.

It's much easier to win world titles nowadays especially if you have a name and a big promoter. Adrien Broner is a 4 division champion. I pointed out a few posts ago De La Hoya would have had a hard time winning one single title in the 70s and 80s. Now with 4 organizations having 5 belts and cherry picking and way more stripping it's easy to pick them up. Even after Cervantes got his title back it took a hall of famer to beat him (Pryor) when he was really old and he was the clear true champion at that weight (he beat the other champion (Mamby).

Anyway original point is Benitez had accomplished far more entering the ring vs. Leonard than what Canelo had by 2013. In fact I'd say Benitez by 1979 had a better career than Canelo has had now. If we are talking Benitez by 23? Well, Canelo will never accomplish as much and simply looking at the fights he's just not anywhere near as good. On top of that I haven't even had to mention the catch-weight talk.

Floyd fans like to build up everything on his resume and that often means talking down other generations and great fighters. Mayweather fought two all-time great fighters his whole career - Marquez and Pacquaio. Marquez was dramatically undersized at that point having to move up two divisions after having just moved up two divisions in a year yet Floyd fans paint that as the best version of Marquez (they were 28 lbs and 5 weight classes apart 2 years prior and 17 lbs and 3 weight classes a year prior). Pacquaio obviously was far past his prime and had been brutally KO'd and looked like a shell of his former self. Mosley and De La Hoya IMO are very good but not great and obviously both of those guys were about a decade past their best and both coming off major inactive periods in their careers.

You discredit Floyd for fighting a few past prime fighters but won't do the same to Leonard who fought Hagler past his prime and barely won. He fought Camacho in a cherry picked fight and got his ass kicked in a classic situation of cherry picking gone wrong. Don't use the excuse that Leonard was past his prime because Floyd beat Cotto, Canelo, and Pacquiao when he was in his late 30s while Leonard didn't win a single fight after turning 35 and his last big win was an over the hill Duran, the same man who beat him in his prime.

You bring up Marquez moving up two weight classes but fail to mention Duran's best weight class was lightweight yet he still kicked Leonard's ass at welterweight. You claim beating a 21 year old Benitez is somehow more significant than beating a 23 year old Canelo who has more fights and had been a professional longer than Benitez was when he faced Leonard.

Yes, there are 4 major titles today but there are also more people competing in boxing today than they were in 1980. There are literally thousands of people across the world fighting in each weight class and only 4 major belts which means most guys will never get their hands on a world title. Being world champion today is not as easy as you make it sound. For example Buster Douglas was once undisputed champion in boxing, he would not be an undisputed champ today.

[Kuyukut]

re-posting boxrec atg.

as usual boxrec overrating Fraud jr at # 42.

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Sam Langford
5. Harry Greb
6. Joe Louis
7. Ezzard Charles
8. Willie Pep
9. Roberto Duran
10. Archie Moore

11. Benny Leonard
12. Ray Leonard
13. Pernell Whitaker
14. Bob Fitzsimmons
15. Joe Gans
16. Carlos Monzon
17. Barney Ross
18. Jack Johnson
19. Marvin Hagler
20. Jimmy Wilde

21. Mickey Walker
22. Sandy Saddler
23. Manny Pacquiao
24. Julio Cesar Chavez
25. Alexis Arguello
26. Rocky Marciano
27. Gene Tunney
28. Roy Jones Jr
29. Lennox Lewis
30. Evander Holyfield

31. Bernard Hopkins
32. Barbados Joe Walcott
33. Eder Jofre
34. Tony Canzoneri
35. Emile Griffith
36. Jack Dempsey
37. Charley Burley
38. Kid Gavilan
39. Salvador Sanchez
40. Ike Williams


41. Larry Holmes
42. Floyd Mayweather Jr
43. Thomas Hearns
44. Jimmy McLarnin
45. Stanley Ketchel

[chrisJS]

You discredit Floyd for fighting a few past prime fighters but won't do the same to Leonard who fought Hagler past his prime and barely won. He fought Camacho in a cherry picked fight and got his ass kicked in a classic situation of cherry picking gone wrong. Don't use the excuse that Leonard was past his prime because Floyd beat Cotto, Canelo, and Pacquiao when he was in his late 30s while Leonard didn't win a single fight after turning 35 and his last big win was an over the hill Duran, the same man who beat him in his prime.

You bring up Marquez moving up two weight classes but fail to mention Duran's best weight class was lightweight yet he still kicked Leonard's ass at welterweight. You claim beating a 21 year old Benitez is somehow more significant than beating a 23 year old Canelo who has more fights and had been a professional longer than Benitez was when he faced Leonard.

Yes, there are 4 major titles today but there are also more people competing in boxing today than they were in 1980. There are literally thousands of people across the world fighting in each weight class and only 4 major belts which means most guys will never get their hands on a world title. Being world champion today is not as easy as you make it sound. For example Buster Douglas was once undisputed champion in boxing, he would not be an undisputed champ today.

Different eras fighters careers last longer now. No way was Leonard prime when he fought Camacho that's insane. Wilfredo Gomez was a spent bullett at age 27/28 whereas Cotto had some success in his 30s but no sane human being would rank Cottos career over Gomez. I'm a Marquez fan but I'm not just going to put Marquez as the greatest Latino fighter ever because he had better wins at an older age than everyone else.

Yes Duran moved up his best weight was Lightweight but he was still a great fighter above hence his career. Bad comparison especially since Duran had fought a bunch of fights already at Welterweight so was used to the weight. Marquez jumped two divisions no tuneups and that was after jumping up two divisions very quickly.

You failed to mention Leonard also had three years off coming into the Hagler fight.

[*TonyMontana*]

I don't say it cos I know the backlash but I think floyd is the greatest I have seen on the ring

There won't be another one

He's such a nob though

[Johnwoo8686]

Different eras fighters careers last longer now. No way was Leonard prime when he fought Camacho that's insane. Wilfredo Gomez was a spent bullett at age 27/28 whereas Cotto had some success in his 30s but no sane human being would rank Cottos career over Gomez. I'm a Marquez fan but I'm not just going to put Marquez as the greatest Latino fighter ever because he had better wins at an older age than everyone else.

Yes Duran moved up his best weight was Lightweight but he was still a great fighter above hence his career. Bad comparison especially since Duran had fought a bunch of fights already at Welterweight so was used to the weight. Marquez jumped two divisions no tuneups and that was after jumping up two divisions very quickly.

You failed to mention Leonard also had three years off coming into the Hagler fight.

Obviously you understand the point I am trying to make. I never said Leonard was prime when he fought Camacho. Im pointing out that at 40 years old Mayweather had a lot more left in the tank than Leonard did at 40. I don't totally buy the whole thing of fighters careers lasting longer now especially considering that Ray Robinson fought until 45 and even won a few fights in his 40s. George Foreman is older than Ray Leonard and won the heavyweight championship at 45.

My point is that no matter if an opponent was younger than Floyd, older than Floyd, bigger than Floyd or smaller than Floyd they all lost when they stood in front of him. The same can't be said for Leonard.

[Johnwoo8686]

re-posting boxrec atg.

as usual boxrec overrating Fraud jr at # 42.

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Sam Langford
5. Harry Greb
6. Joe Louis
7. Ezzard Charles
8. Willie Pep
9. Roberto Duran
10. Archie Moore

11. Benny Leonard
12. Ray Leonard
13. Pernell Whitaker
14. Bob Fitzsimmons
15. Joe Gans
16. Carlos Monzon
17. Barney Ross
18. Jack Johnson
19. Marvin Hagler
20. Jimmy Wilde

21. Mickey Walker
22. Sandy Saddler
23. Manny Pacquiao
24. Julio Cesar Chavez
25. Alexis Arguello
26. Rocky Marciano
27. Gene Tunney
28. Roy Jones Jr
29. Lennox Lewis
30. Evander Holyfield

31. Bernard Hopkins
32. Barbados Joe Walcott
33. Eder Jofre
34. Tony Canzoneri
35. Emile Griffith
36. Jack Dempsey
37. Charley Burley
38. Kid Gavilan
39. Salvador Sanchez
40. Ike Williams


41. Larry Holmes
42. Floyd Mayweather Jr
43. Thomas Hearns
44. Jimmy McLarnin
45. Stanley Ketchel

LOL complete b.s. Floyd is listed at number one on boxrec right now pound for pound. Don't lie.

[chrisJS]

Obviously you understand the point I am trying to make. I never said Leonard was prime when he fought Camacho. Im pointing out that at 40 years old Mayweather had a lot more left in the tank than Leonard did at 40. I don't totally buy the whole thing of fighters careers lasting longer now especially considering that Ray Robinson fought until 45 and even won a few fights in his 40s. George Foreman is older than Ray Leonard and won the heavyweight championship at 45.

My point is that no matter if an opponent was younger than Floyd, older than Floyd, bigger than Floyd or smaller than Floyd they all lost when they stood in front of him. The same can't be said for Leonard.

Same can be said of Calzaghe, Lopez, Ottke, Marciano etc; but they aren't better than Robinson, Duran, Pep, Ali etc;

Leonard has better wins and that's clearly to anyone objective. It's hard to find that in this thread though as there's people saying Judah in 2006 was better than prime Hearns for crying out loud and those are the type of opinions often used by Floyd fans hence why people think he has the most nutty fans in the sport.

[Johnwoo8686]

Same can be said of Calzaghe, Lopez, Ottke, Marciano etc; but they aren't better than Robinson, Duran, Pep, Ali etc;

Leonard has better wins and that's clearly to anyone objective. It's hard to find that in this thread though as there's people saying Judah in 2006 was better than prime Hearns for crying out loud and those are the type of opinions often used by Floyd fans hence why people think he has the most nutty fans in the sport.

Floyd fought more world championship level fighters than Calzaghe, Lopez, Ottke, and Marciano which is why he is held in higher regard to those guys. Come on man, don't be dishonest. The reason why Ali is held in higher regard than Marciano is because he fought and won more championship fights which is the same reason why Floyd is considered greater than Calzaghe.

No one is saying Judah is greater than Hearns but Judah does have the distinction of being the last undisputed welterweight champion. And remember Floyd was an undefeated welterweight which is his FOURTH weight class. Leonard wasn't even undefeated at welterweight which was his first and best weight class.

And stop with the ad hominem attack. Most popular fighters had their extreme fans. Mike Tyson had extreme fans, Pacquiao had the PacTards.
Everything I am saying is factual.

[robertzimmerman]

Obviously you understand the point I am trying to make. I never said Leonard was prime when he fought Camacho. Im pointing out that at 40 years old Mayweather had a lot more left in the tank than Leonard did at 40. I don't totally buy the whole thing of fighters careers lasting longer now especially considering that Ray Robinson fought until 45 and even won a few fights in his 40s. George Foreman is older than Ray Leonard and won the heavyweight championship at 45.

My point is that no matter if an opponent was younger than Floyd, older than Floyd, bigger than Floyd or smaller than Floyd they all lost when they stood in front of him. The same can't be said for Leonard.

Floyd deserves huge credit for his longevity. But your second paragraph doesn't really mean anything.