Who hits harder? Canelita or Brook?

[_Maxi]

I think people are missing the point of this thread.

Golovkin takes a good punch and anyone who truly believes he was "in trouble" against Brook is a fuckin moron.

Thanks brother.

[Mr Objecitivity]

Thanks brother.

Do you think Kell Brook can beat Canelo Alvarez at 160 pounds (barring robberies)? Particularly the version that fought Golovkin?

[iamboxing]

Canelo without a question, at least Canelo had GGG look ruffled, with Brook he wasn't even bothered

[_Maxi]

Do you think Kell Brook can beat Canelo Alvarez at 160 pounds (barring robberies)? Particularly the version that fought Golovkin?

As I said one year ago, that version of Brook defeats A LOT of MWs. Gives Canelo a 50/50 fight. Actually in a fair world I think that version of Brook beats Canelo.

But the problem with Brook seems to be that his face bones can't hold a big punch, which is sad.

[j0zef]

So we can agree then that Golovkin got hit against Brook because he didn't care, not because he has no defence.

I wouldn't say he 'didnt care', he did. Even the worst boxers with the worst performances care about defense, otherwise they'd all get KTFO in 30 seconds.

But it definitely wasn't a huge part of his game plan, and he did get hit much more and much cleaner than usual because he knew he could take the punches.

Golovkin has great defense when he wants to have it. It's much subtler than most 'defensive wizards', for example Floyd's shoulder roll or Canelo's lightning fast reflexes. Golovkin's defense relies on trusting his chin to absorb light, grazing punches. 95% of the punches that 'land' on him get either partially blocked by his gloves, or have lost their momentum because he turned far away/rolled with them.

I started picking up on this during the Lemieux fight (took me long enough). Lemieux didn't land a lot, but when he did, they looked like big shots. When watching the fight later with different angles, you can see just how many of those shots didn't really land. If you make the effort, you see the exact same thing with Wade, Brook, Jacobs (a LOT in this fight) and to some degree Canelo.
In the Wade fight, as short as it was, it looked a lot like a brawl where each guy was getting hit. Watch it again, and most of the punches that Wade threw were blocked. The extreme case was Jacobs fight. Watching it live, I legitimately thought Golovkin lost the belts. Was surprised at the result when they announced it. Saw the fight again the next day and felt foolish, because so many of Jacobs' shots were nothing more than flash and didn't hit anything.

This is what makes Canelo so impressive to me. Golovkin definitely stressed his defense in this fight, yet Canelo still landed quite a lot of clean, unblocked shots. You can chalk it up to Golovkin not expecting Canelo to move so much (Sanchez fail), to Canelo being THAT good and THAT accurate, to Golovkin slowing down, whatever. But it did happen, and it's one of the biggest adjustments Canelo can make in the rematch. He rarely sits on his shots and puts his power into it. If he finds his rhythm and starts tagging Golovkin with fully powered shots instead of light counters, Golovkin can easily get knocked out.

[_Maxi]

I wouldn't say he 'didnt care', he did. Even the worst boxers with the worst performances care about defense, otherwise they'd all get KTFO in 30 seconds.

But it definitely wasn't a huge part of his game plan, and he did get hit much more and much cleaner than usual because he knew he could take the punches.

Golovkin has great defense when he wants to have it. It's much subtler than most 'defensive wizards', for example Floyd's shoulder roll or Canelo's lightning fast reflexes. Golovkin's defense relies on trusting his chin to absorb light, grazing punches. 95% of the punches that 'land' on him get either partially blocked by his gloves, or have lost their momentum because he turned far away/rolled with them.

I started picking up on this during the Lemieux fight (took me long enough). Lemieux didn't land a lot, but when he did, they looked like big shots. When watching the fight later with different angles, you can see just how many of those shots didn't really land. If you make the effort, you see the exact same thing with Wade, Brook, Jacobs (a LOT in this fight) and to some degree Canelo.
In the Wade fight, as short as it was, it looked a lot like a brawl where each guy was getting hit. Watch it again, and most of the punches that Wade threw were blocked. The extreme case was Jacobs fight. Watching it live, I legitimately thought Golovkin lost the belts. Was surprised at the result when they announced it. Saw the fight again the next day and felt foolish, because so many of Jacobs' shots were nothing more than flash and didn't hit anything.

This is what makes Canelo so impressive to me. Golovkin definitely stressed his defense in this fight, yet Canelo still landed quite a lot of clean, unblocked shots. You can chalk it up to Golovkin not expecting Canelo to move so much (Sanchez fail), to Canelo being THAT good and THAT accurate, to Golovkin slowing down, whatever. But it did happen, and it's one of the biggest adjustments Canelo can make in the rematch. He rarely sits on his shots and puts his power into it. If he finds his rhythm and starts tagging Golovkin with fully powered shots instead of light counters, Golovkin can easily get knocked out.

I agree with what you say about Golovkin's defence, 100%. I always saw it this way.

There have been some threads calling on it:

https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=732569

https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=750987

But for what some is obvious, for others it isn't so obvious.

I agree that Canelo could have won the fight. If he didn't disappear for 6 or 7 rounds in the middle of the fight. He won most of the rounds when he wanted to fight. Though some were close, he did win most of 1-3 and 10-12. Maybe 4, maybe 5 being generous.

But yes, I think the same. He can win more rounds next time unless Golovkin does something different. Which I think he will and that's why we saw him skinnier this time. More speed to try to KO Canelo. Who will win? unsure...

[Mexican_Puppet]

Brook is a fu.cking normal fighter.

Canelo will destroy any version of him...

[Mr Objecitivity]

As I said one year ago, that version of Brook defeats A LOT of MWs. Gives Canelo a 50/50 fight. Actually in a fair world I think that version of Brook beats Canelo.

But the problem with Brook seems to be that his face bones can't hold a big punch, which is sad.

Fair point! And I'm not sure if Kell Brook's face was always that vulnerable. I believe it could be something to do with Golovkin permanently damaging it lol. Now his future opponents are going to have an easier time further destroying and damaging that face of his after Golovkin already permanently destroyed it.