Did Roy Jones Jr blatantly duck / avoid Dariusz Michaelczewski? Why?

[Tonsetzer]

They both werent to willing to make that fight, thats true. Too bad Roy cared about hometown decisions in his prime. When he became a punching bag he was more than willing to travel to russia or australia. The risk back then would have been comprehensible, DM was a very good fighter. He usually started bad (beside some fights like against Montell Griffin) but became better with every round. His stamina was extremely good. However, his style and his speed and his tendency that it took him a few rounds to get his engine going would have all spelled disaster against Roy Jones. Jones would have won 11-1 /10-2. They wouldnt have robbed him. When Julio Gonzales (who Jones toyed with like he wanted) beat past prime DM, he got the decision like he should. Beeing robbed in germany is an overused term.

[Mr Objecitivity]

yes that was the official rule of most of the sanctioning bodies back then. were you not watching boxing at the time?

Here are some of the problems with this:

1) It's a double standard from the sanctioning bodies since they immediately recognized the IBF title immediately after its existence but took around a decade to recognize the WBO title when it came into existence.

2) The IBF and the WBA stripped Michaelczewski off their titles by using the excuse that he displayed their titles alongside the WBO title. When that wasn't in any rule or contract. They made that rule up conveniently and spontaneously to strip Michalczewski off his titles so that they can give those titles to Roy Jones Jr.

3) Roy Jones Jr then displayed his titles with his other titles when he became the undisputed champion and he wasn't stripped like how Michalczewski was.


So are you now spotting the double / multiple standards?

The answer to your question: Yes, I have been watching boxing in the 1990's and know pretty well what was going on.

I don't need to even elaborate on WBC's greater corruption on when they were taken to court by Rocky Gannon after they refused to give him his well deserved mandatory positioned title shot. Instead, Roy Jones Jr had to fight an old Mike Maccallum.

[Mr Objecitivity]

Mr Objecitivity,



Thanks.



No money was ever provided, because their advisors and the heads of their TV networks, were never able to sit down together and discuss any specifics.

What prerequisites?

The only thing that happened, was that HBO suggested that they both fought in a 'Double Header' to introduce Dariusz to a live U.S. audience. Kerry Davis of HBO put the proposal together, and it was sent via fax, as their calls were being ignored.

There weren't any obstacles.



I agree that it does occur everywhere and it has done many times in the U.S. But Roy was scarred from the Olympics, and some of the judging and refereeing in some of Sven Ottke's fights were outrageous.

Also, Dariusz pathetically feigned injury in order to get Graciano Rocchigianni disqualified in their first fight.

It was cringeworthy, but worthy of an Oscar.

It was an absolute joke. See for yourself:

https://********/W9_Dxs51QvI

Roy was well within his rights to not want to take all 3 of the main belts over there.


If you want to see if a fighter genuinely wants to have big fights, then the best thing to do, is to look at what happened after they lost out on a big fight. Look at what they did instead. Look at what they did afterwards.

Roy proved that he was open to big fights back then. When he couldn't obtain the fight with Dariusz in 2001, he then tried to rematch Bernard Hopkins in 2002. Mark Taffet of HBO is on record stating that Bernard was offered $6m, but he flatly refused and demanded $10m. So that was the 2nd big fight that Roy lost. But in the following year, Roy then fought John Ruiz and Antonio Tarver. So when Roy lost out on a big fight, he pursued the next one.

Now take a look at what Dariusz did. His resume speaks volumes. When he lost out on the opportunity fight with Roy, he just continued to do what he'd done previously, which was to milk his lightly regarded WBO title in Germany, against mainly B and C class opposition. So I don't believe that he ever really wanted to fight Roy in the U.S. back then. I don't think he wanted the big fights. I think he was more than content to just carry on with what he'd been doing, which was similar to what Joe Calzaghe did with his WBO belt at SMW.

Anybody can say anything. But as per the old adage: "Actions speak louder than words"

What prerequisites?

Dariusz Michaelczewski had to box against multiple opponents in USA to get a chance to regain his lost titles from Roy Jones Jr.

But Roy was scarred from the Olympics

That's perfectly understandable and I haven't got a problem with that.

Also, Dariusz pathetically feigned injury in order to get Graciano Rocchigianni disqualified in their first fight.

It was cringeworthy, but worthy of an Oscar.

It was an absolute joke. See for yourself:

https://********/W9_Dxs51QvI

Roy was well within his rights to not want to take all 3 of the main belts over there.

Yup, thanks again for that video. I agree. It's totally understandable why Roy Jones Jr refused a bout abroad. And that the blame in this particular instance must go to Dariusz Michaelczewski.

If you want to see if a fighter genuinely wants to have big fights, then the best thing to do, is to look at what happened after they lost out on a big fight. Look at what they did instead. Look at what they did afterwards.

Roy proved that he was open to big fights back then. When he couldn't obtain the fight with Dariusz in 2001, he then tried to rematch Bernard Hopkins in 2002. Mark Taffet of HBO is on record stating that Bernard was offered $6m, but he flatly refused and demanded $10m. So that was the 2nd big fight that Roy lost. But in the following year, Roy then fought John Ruiz and Antonio Tarver. So when Roy lost out on a big fight, he pursued the next one.

Now take a look at what Dariusz did. His resume speaks volumes. When he lost out on the opportunity fight with Roy, he just continued to do what he'd done previously, which was to milk his lightly regarded WBO title in Germany, against mainly B and C class opposition. So I don't believe that he ever really wanted to fight Roy in the U.S. back then. I don't think he wanted the big fights. I think he was more than content to just carry on with what he'd been doing, which was similar to what Joe Calzaghe did with his WBO belt at SMW.

Anybody can say anything. But as per the old adage: "Actions speak louder than words"

That part is true about Roy Jones jr. However, one thing that has to be mentioned about Dariusz Michaelczewski to his credit is that he obtained his titles against better level of opposition who were either linear title holders at the time or had better wins themselves to obtain their own titles against more accomplished opponents. Whilst Roy Jones jr won his titles, mostly as vacated belts or against less accomplished opponents.

I'm just being objective here. No bias towards either boxer. Even though I am a huge Roy Jones Jr fan myself. I'm trying to analyze this topic from as many angles as possible.

[robertzimmerman]

Here are some of the problems with this:

1) It's a double standard from the sanctioning bodies since they immediately recognized the IBF title immediately after its existence but took around a decade to recognize the WBO title when it came into existence.

2) The IBF and the WBA stripped Michaelczewski off their titles by using the excuse that he displayed their titles alongside the WBO title. When that wasn't in any rule or contract. They made that rule up conveniently and spontaneously to strip Michalczewski off his titles so that they can give those titles to Roy Jones Jr.

3) Roy Jones Jr then displayed his titles with his other titles when he became the undisputed champion and he wasn't stripped like how Michalczewski was.


So are you now spotting the double / multiple standards?

The answer to your question: Yes, I have been watching boxing in the 1990's and know pretty well what was going on.

I don't need to even elaborate on WBC's greater corruption on when they were taken to court by Rocky Gannon after they refused to give him his well deserved mandatory positioned title shot. Instead, Roy Jones Jr had to fight an old Mike Maccallum.

Nobody respected the WBO back then.

They were a laughing stock.

The Ring magazine didn't have ratings for them, and respected journalists like Thomas Hauser dismissed them.

They once moved a guy up their rankings after he'd died.


Those other org's didn't strip him and give his titles to Roy. Roy just ended up with them after beating Del Valle and Reggie.

[robertzimmerman]

Dariusz Michaelczewski had to box against multiple opponents in USA to get a chance to regain his lost titles from Roy Jones Jr.



That's perfectly understandable and I haven't got a problem with that.



Yup, thanks again for that video. I agree. It's totally understandable why Roy Jones Jr refused a bout abroad. And that the blame in this particular instance must go to Dariusz Michaelczewski.




That part is true about Roy Jones jr. However, one thing that has to be mentioned about Dariusz Michaelczewski to his credit is that he obtained his titles against better level of opposition who were either linear title holders at the time or had better wins themselves to obtain their own titles against more accomplished opponents. Whilst Roy Jones jr won his titles, mostly as vacated belts or against less accomplished opponents.

I'm just being objective here. No bias towards either boxer. Even though I am a huge Roy Jones Jr fan myself. I'm trying to analyze this topic from as many angles as possible.

I don't understand where you're coming from, when you keep saying that Dariusz had to beat multiple opponents before he could fight Roy.

[N/A]

1) It's a double standard from the sanctioning bodies since they immediately recognized the IBF title immediately after its existence but took around a decade to recognize the WBO title when it came into existence.

The IBF was instantly credible, the WBO was instantly a joke. The WBO was founded by the WBA's disgraced bribe taker after being exiled by the WBA.

2) The IBF and the WBA stripped Michaelczewski off their titles by using the excuse that he displayed their titles alongside the WBO title. When that wasn't in any rule or contract. They made that rule up conveniently and spontaneously to strip Michalczewski off his titles so that they can give those titles to Roy Jones Jr.

Wrong. The IBF stripped DM for refusing to fight his mandatory. The WBA stripped DM for refusing to vacate the WBO title, but that was a clear WBA rule that had been in existence for years. You're posting false information.

3) Roy Jones Jr then displayed his titles with his other titles when he became the undisputed champion and he wasn't stripped like how Michalczewski was.

The rules had changed in the four years in between.

[FinitoxDinamita]

If I remember correctly, Roy wanted 25 Million to tango with D.M in early 00's. Roy wasn't a PPV attraction back then. I don't think he ever was.

He couldnt even get that while moving up to HW for John Ruiz. He got like 10 from what i remember.

He was pricing himself out asking for 25 mill.

But Jones was at the top and he didnt have to travel for anybody.

[N/A]

He couldnt even get that while moving up to HW for John Ruiz. He got like 10 from what i remember.

He was pricing himself out asking for 25 mill.

But Jones was at the top and he didnt have to travel for anybody.

The poster you responded to was posting false information.

Roy asked for $12 million to go to Germany.

As for Roy vs Ruiz, $10 million was Roy's guarantee, but he made way more than that.

[BattlingNelson]

No. He chose to hide behind an unrecognized title to avoid top competition. He was rightfully stripped for refusing to give up the WBOgus belt.

Rightfully?


Some standards you have. Here's what happened:


"The WBA immediately stripped him for displaying its belt along with that of the WBO, an organization it didn't recognize. Michalczewski was then forced to relinquish the IBF title when he was unable to defend the title in a court-ordered defense against mandatory challenger William Guthrie within a little over a month after the bout with Hill.<sup>[1]''


From wikipedia</sup>

[BattlingNelson]

Dariusz Michaelczewski had to box against multiple opponents in USA to get a chance to regain his lost titles from Roy Jones Jr.

I don't know about that, but what I do know, is that DM was offered a slot on a Jones undercard for much less money than what a standard defense in Germany would give him.

It might have been worthwhile had jones guaranteed a subsequent fight but he wouldn't.

In other words Jones wasn't really interested in becoming champion. He just wanted to milk his trinkets against lousy opposition for HBO millions. Makes a lot of business if not sporting sense.