Can someone explain to aboutfkntime

[aboutfkntime]

How am I supposed to take this info and explain to a newcomer anything about weight classes?

When did Floyd and Manny become genuine welterweight? What criteria are you using to make that determination? And Canelo, is he a middleweight yet? What criteria are you basing this assessment on?

put it this way.....

if you don't get it, then I do need this question answered

tell me why YOU think that Golovkin said this about 159lb Kell Brook immediately following their fight.....

" he is not a middleweight, He just isn't " ~ Golovkin

[GGG Gloveking]

you need to understand it yourself, first

why is any of that nonsense suddenly important to you ?

why ?

explain to your casual-fan friend that every fighter is different...... and when some move up, they can take awhile to settle in at the new weight..... there is no hard-and-fast rule, and nor should there be.....

a typical "rule" (which is silly, because every fighter is different) would be..... that a fighter needs a couple of bouts to truly settle in, and tailor his camp/routine to the new division (which can be significantly different)

it can be correct to refer to a fighter as "genuine" in his first fight at the weight, like I just did with Canelo (mainly because of the Chavez fight)..... with the caveat that he will obviously adjust to the new regime/weight in time, and get better

no idea why you need this to be explained more clearly, and no idea why you feel the need to explain this to casuals..... I am as old as Methuselah and cannot recall this ever being a vital/important subject..... oh, until this thread that is

maybe this is obvious to me because I am experienced..... but if you throw away your calculator and use some common-sense you will be fine

It's important because I don't think there has been a champ before that people have tried to claim was a lower weight class than what the belt represents. I'm interested in the specific because I would like to examine the careers of some fighters using your criteria to as if they were "genuine" members of the divisions they fought in. How many divisions were Pac and Floyd genuine champions in? That's something I'd like to examine. Or Broner, was he really a 4 division champ, or just a genuine member of 2 of them? Just stepping on the scale isn't good enough

[Real King Kong]

tell me why YOU think that Golovkin said this about 159lb Kell Brook immediately following their fight.....
" he is not a middleweight, He just isn't " ~ Golovkin


I just asked for your opinion

no reason why that question should be regarded as offensive

false equivalence...brook was making the ww limit, canelo was using caneloweight to weight bully his opponents and come into the ring as a lhw. canelo's body has been ready for mw for a long time, he just didn't wanna make the move for whatever reason.

while were on the subject of questions that shouldn't be regarded as an offense...why do you think a mw title fight should have been held at 155?

[ruedboy]

The problem most posters have is they don't know the difference between facts and opinions.
For example boxing rules state that the limit for a JMW is 154 lbs.Over 154 up to 160 lbs is classified as a MW. These are facts because they can be verified by consulting the rule book.
Now a person can say the rules are dumb and this guy is not a "genuine MW" despite weighing within the range over 154 to 160, and that would be an opinion.
An opinion could be an educated one or not, but what all opinions have in common is they're impossible to verify.
Everybody's got opinions, people get it wrong when they think their opinions are facts.

[D4thincarnation]

does the word " genuine " still upset you ?

ok, so..... Canelo was obviously not a genuine middleweight

would you prefer that I used the word " pretend "

as-in..... Canelo was a pretend middloeweight

or would you prefer the word..... " artificial "

the word fake also works nicely

what word did you have in mind ?

Seriously read up on the "No True Scotsman Fallacy" I think it will help you.

Let me know what you think.

[aboutfkntime]

It's important because I don't think there has been a champ before that people have tried to claim was a lower weight class than what the belt represents. I'm interested in the specific because I would like to examine the careers of some fighters using your criteria to as if they were "genuine" members of the divisions they fought in. How many divisions were Pac and Floyd genuine champions in? That's something I'd like to examine. Or Broner, was he really a 4 division champ, or just a genuine member of 2 of them? Just stepping on the scale isn't good enough

STOP TALKING UTTER BOLLOCKS !!!!!


Q. who the hell did Canelo win the WBC title off ?

A. a JMW, who weighed 153

if you think that Pac was a genuine JMW when he beat Margarito, let alone a genuine JMW champion..... then you should be tied up, p1ssed on, and dragged behind a horse

stop your ridiculous excuses, because I just spent a lot of time CLEARLY explaining how weight works

casual-fans are totally clueless about styles/levels/weight

and stop running around telling " a friend of mine " stories

if you need more help, just ask

tell me why YOU think that Golovkin said this about 159lb Kell Brook immediately following their fight.....

" he is not a middleweight, He just isn't " ~ Golovkin

answer the question, or STFU

[aboutfkntime]

false equivalence...brook was making the ww limit, canelo was using caneloweight to weight bully his opponents and come into the ring as a lhw. canelo's body has been ready for mw for a long time, he just didn't wanna make the move for whatever reason.

while were on the subject of questions that shouldn't be regarded as an offense...why do you think a mw title fight should have been held at 155?

answer the question clown !!

tell me why YOU think that Golovkin said this about 159lb Kell Brook immediately following their fight.....

" he is not a middleweight, He just isn't " ~ Golovkin

..... why is that question so deeply disturbing to you ?

[aboutfkntime]

The problem most posters have is they don't know the difference between facts and opinions.
For example boxing rules state that the limit for a JMW is 154 lbs.Over 154 up to 160 lbs is classified as a MW. These are facts because they can be verified by consulting the rule book.
Now a person can say the rules are dumb and this guy is not a "genuine MW" despite weighing within the range over 154 to 160, and that would be an opinion.
An opinion could be an educated one or not, but what all opinions have in common is they're impossible to verify.
Everybody's got opinions, people get it wrong when they think their opinions are facts.

your calculator-based, maths-book, opinion..... is amusing

I'll give you a tip, and then refer you to the post below.....

Q. why does boxing have divisions..... ?
A. because..... size matters

so..... in your calculator-based, maths-book, opinion.....
..... what " matters " about .2 lbs?

you say that a guy who weighs 153.9 is a JMW (and yet bizarrely refer to Cotto as a MW)..... and you say that a guy who weighs 154.1 is a middleweight.....

so.....

Q. what about the .2 lbs " matters " in order to justify the existence of the current divisional system?

A. fkn nothing , you idiot..... there is clearly no difference

no, there really isn't

Floyd was undersized when he first moved to welter

it took him a few fights to adapt to the weight and fill out at 147

the correct explanation would be..... that after a couple of fights Floyd could be classified as a small (but genuine) welter..... he then filled into 147 as he aged, becoming a beast at the weight, but never as big as the larger welters

Pac was not a welter, and could only be referred to as such during the latter portion of his 147 career

no way is a guy who needs to eat 6 meals a day, including being woken at 3am/6am for bulking shakes..... just to come in at 143/144..... a genuine welterweight

he never worked to cut weight

Manny was punching above his weight at 147, just like Mayweather at 154.......... and Ariza admitted that they just could not keep any weight on Manny due to his metabolism..... Pac burned it off in those mega-sessions he used to do with Alex

he was a JWW who was punching above his weight, and the best he could muster was 143/144..... hence all of those 143/144 catchweights..... later filling out as he aged

for some time now it has been correct to refer to Manny as a small (but genuine) welter

and calling him a JMW because of the Margarito fight would be utterly ******ed and would take us right back to calling Canelo a SMW because of Chavez

it's just common-sense..... there is no hard-and-fast rule, because every fighter is different

you need to.....
1) throw your calculator away, and never pick it up again
2) be more flexible in your viewpoint..... realize that every fighter is different

3) another thing that would help folks out..... realize that it is impossible for every boxing match to be comprised of two fighters who are exactly identical in weight..... boxing has never worked that way, and never will.....

what I mean by that is..... FACT: in every division there are smaller fighters, and there are bigger fighters..... which is perfectly fine..... the bigger fighters are not "cheats", or any such nonsense

listen, I never said that what Canelo did at 155 (and 150) was acceptable..... it was fkn lame, no question..... and it was highly unprofessional in my book..... Canelo should have had more respect for his JMW opponents, who likely may not have benefited from that extra pound as much as he did

not the biggest crime, by a long shot..... but he should have played it straight..... but then going to the other end of the scale, and calling him a dirty cheating middleweight..... is fkn ******ed

look, I will not press you regarding my question about 159lb Brook, but there is a damn good reason why Golovkin said what he said.....

[aboutfkntime]

Seriously read up on the "No True Scotsman Fallacy" I think it will help you.

Let me know what you think.

when you objected to the word " genuine ".... I asked you which word you preferred, and then I gave you a few examples....

fake.... pretend.... false.... FUGAZI.....

pick a word, and get back to me..... we can refer to Canelo as a (insert word meaning not-genuine here) middleweight, no problem at all

[aboutfkntime]

tell me why YOU think that Golovkin said this about 159lb Kell Brook immediately following their fight.....

" he is not a middleweight, He just isn't " ~ Golovkin

why is that such a soul-destroying question for you guys ?

that is a logical/reasonable question, and yet.....