Rocky Marciano Lost...

[boliodogs]

Maybe it's true but it sounds like BS. I don't think pros can fight amateur bouts. I boxed amateur bouts in the army and pro boxers could not fight us amateurs. My opinion of Marciano doesn't change. He was one of the best PFP boxers in history. He weighed in at about 184 pounds in street clothes well fed and hydrated 8 hours before his world title fights. He was really a light heavyweight who was the heavyweight champ. Both Moore and Charles out weighed him when they fought.

[travestyny]

Hmmm........that info laid out there looks pretty iffy IMHO.
A lot of no-name fighters with poor records *supposedly* being ranked in the top 10?, doesn't hold a lot of water in my book.

Those "deductions" don't look like they can sway public opinion much.

I think that's fair!

Respect.

[travestyny]

I see LouCipher mentioned. Is this just some, "a racist douche on here got me angry so I'm going to lash back at him" thing?? Or is this a legit inquiry?
I find it hard to believe that boxing historians have just overlooked this for decades and now the grand reveal is in the form of an NSB thread.

It's a couple of things, but not exactly the "a racist douche on here got me angry so I'm going to lash back at him" thing. It was more like, "a douche on here is talking shlt, apparently motivated by race, but let's see what he thinks of this...." and also wanted to see what the board thinks.


I've seen this reported a few places and it certainly seems legit. There is even a snippet of an interview with the guy who beat him.

Here's the thing. One of the amateur loses was supposedly a robbery. The other was legit, but it was a 3 round fight (pro fights began at 4 rounders). The dude who won said:

"How do you think I beat Rocky? I beat him because it was three rounds. There were a hundred guys who might have stayed three rounds with The Rock. But no man in the world was gonna beat Rocky in fifteen rounds; not Dempsey, not Ali, not anybody. I knew he was going to be champ. I don't think anybody could hurt Rocky. Every time he hit you, you saw a flash of light. You either grabbed him or you moved back, because if he hits you twice you're gone."

Don't know what version of Ali he think loses to Marciano. Could be being humble. Could be giving props to the guy he fought, or could be his legit opinion.

Either way, it doesn't change that Marciano was a professional, who engaged in two amateur fights after that point, and lost.

Here is a link:
https://www.boxing247.com/news/Rocky-Marciano.php

[travestyny]

Now, I might be wrong but I always thought once you take money to box you are a pro and that once you turn pro you can't become an amateur again...

While home on furlough from the Army in April, 1946, Rocky learned of a local fight club offering money for amateur bouts. A friend of his talked him into giving it a shot and for $30 he signed up. He was assured he'd be put in with someone of his level of experience, but the night of the amateur boxing show he was informed the only heavyweight available for him to fight was Henry Lester. While this was Rocky's first fight, Lester was very experienced, having been a Golden Gloves Champion three years in a row and runner-up in the New England Amateur Championships in 1945. Shrugging off the one-sided nature of the bout, Rocky elected to fight anyway.

Not only was Marciano not a trained boxer, he was also smoking heavily and much overweight. The mismatch showed a slow, bloated, Rocky wheezing his way around the ring, trying to land his wild punches against a polished fighter. Driven against the ropes, completely done in, Rocky lifted a knee in protection as Lester pummeled him. He caught Lester in the stomach, resulting in a disqualification. A knee to the belly doesn't sound bad enough to some folk, so it was reported that he'd kneed Lester in the groin. (Untrue, as Lester's son himself told me the knee was to the stomach).

Though a humiliating loss for the young Italian-American, Rocky learned a valuable lesson. As he told his younger brother, "I learned something from this fight. if I ever get into the ring again, you can bet I won't be out of condition."

After his furlough ended, Marciano decided to try this boxing thing out again. He signed up for the Amateur Athletic Union (AAU) Championship Tournament in Portland, Oregon in August, 1946. Rocky knocked out his first opponent, got a bye on the second fight, and knocked out his third opponent. The men scheduled to face him in his 4th and 5th fights refused to fight the wild, powerful brawler, putting Rocky into the finals. Unknown to them, Marciano had severely dislocated a knuckle in his left hand. Refusing to drop out of the tournament, Rocky stepped into the ring to face the other top fighter of the event, Joe DeAngelis, who won by decision. Rocky spent six week in the hospital, his hand in traction, dispelling any doubts that he was only fighting DeAngelis one handed. It was his second loss as an amateur.

When he got out of the Army the following year, Rocky took a local fight to make a few bucks. This time it would count as a pro fight, and be reported in the Brockton papers. His mother had forbid him to fight, so to keep her from finding out, Marciano signed up as Rocky Mack. His opponent was Lee Eperson and in the third round Eperson became the first of 43 KO victims for the Brockton Blockbuster. The date was March 17th, 1947. (He wasn't yet Rocky Marciano. That name would come about when he signed with Al Weil in 1948, who found his family name of Marchegiano too hard to pronounce)

Finding the pay low for the effort involved, Rocky decided to try his hand at another sport before committing to boxing. Marciano and a couple of friends went down to North Carolina for a tryout with the Chicago Cub's farm team. During the tryouts he threw out his arm and was cut, even though he'd shown noticeable ability at hitting the long ball.

Frustrated at his failed baseball bid, Marciano entered the Golden Gloves Tournament in Lowell, Massachusetts, in January, 1948. He scored 3 KO's in a row. The 3rd was against a good fighter named Charlie Mortimer who had a record of 12-0, and two first round KO's of his own in the tournament before facing Rocky.

After his strong showing in the New England Golden Gloves Rocky was sent to New York as the New England representative for the Golden Gloves All-East Coast Championships. This was in March, 1948. His first fight was against a very good fighter named Coley Wallace, who had a record of 17-0 with 17 KO's. Rocky was the aggressor throughout the fight and landed all the punishing blows, but the judges announced Wallace as the winner. The fans booed and threw bottles and programs into the ring. Rocky would always say he was cheated in this fight, and would determine to take the matter out of the hands of judges by knocking out future opponents.

Also in 1948 Rocky lost an amateur fight to a six-foot-plus heavyweight named Bob Girard. Again Rocky's hand had been injured in an earlier fight and again he fought one handed. Girard was able to outbox the brawler and win a decision. He was modest about his victory over the future heavyweight champion:

"How do you think I beat Rocky? I beat him because it was three rounds. There were a hundred guys who might have stayed three rounds with The Rock. But no man in the world was gonna beat Rocky in fifteen rounds; not Dempsey, not Ali, not anybody. I knew he was going to be champ. I don't think anybody could hurt Rocky. Every time he hit you, you saw a flash of light. You either grabbed him or you moved back, because if he hits you twice you're gone."

It was Rocky's 4th loss as an amateur, and the last time he would ever lose a fight in his life.

Yea, it's certainly strange that he was allowed to go back and forth from pro to amateur. I guess times were different back then...?

[travestyny]

Maybe it's true but it sounds like BS. I don't think pros can fight amateur bouts. I boxed amateur bouts in the army and pro boxers could not fight us amateurs. My opinion of Marciano doesn't change. He was one of the best PFP boxers in history. He weighed in at about 184 pounds in street clothes well fed and hydrated 8 hours before his world title fights. He was really a light heavyweight who was the heavyweight champ. Both Moore and Charles out weighed him when they fought.

It's legit, but I don't think it's that big of a deal. the amateur fights were 3 rounders (his pro fights began at 4 rounders). But he did legit lose. The link to it, along with the guy who beat him making a statement on it, is here:

https://www.boxing247.com/news/Rocky-Marciano.php


Also, speaking of weights, there is a post I quoted talking about the weights of the guys Marciano fought. Seems interesting.


All in all, it doesn't really change my opinion of him. He's the original Joe Calzhaghe. Undefeated, fought some guys too late...considered very good but not at the top of any lists.

[travestyny]

Lou Cipher likes stealing pics from American History X facebook group user pics

[club fighter]

Personally I don't understand the hate for Rocco (and Joe Louis *I read Lou trashing him in the other Marciano thread).

Marciano was a small heavy that whooped all kinda azz. Even the so called small heavyweights he fought were most of the time bigger than him and he still took them out. Joe Louis was long in the tooth when Rocco blasted him but he was still a dangerous ex champ at the time. So No he doesn't deserve the contempt, Rocky was an all time great on achievements alone.

As for Lou trashing Louis in the other thread, Marciano worshipped the guy, to diss him is to diss Marciano. Makes no sense. Maybe I should go mess with Cipher about it, but then he'd probably challenge me to a sparring bout and I'm too old for that. My days at 147lbs were back in 1979/80.