Comments Thread For: Joshua Will Continue To Be a Priority For Showtime, Says Espinoza

[Eff Pandas]

The only heavyweight fights that are anywhere near PPV in the US would be Joshua-Klitschko 2 and Wilder-Joshua.

With Joshua basically being a $10m fighter in the UK now, is HBO going to earnestly be happy with paying $8m a year for the rights to 3 UK/Europe matinee events (or, more boldly, try to market Joshua-Parker, Joshua-Miller, or whatever fights that they can get with the folks they have access to, as PPV events)?

Because, imo, a Joshua-Wilder series of fights (there'll be at least two fights) pays off the over two years of work to build Joshua's profile in the US (and likely leaves you with two PPV attractions after the fights in a trilogy).

Maybe this is me beating a dead horse, but the Hearn/HBO connection is being oversold; Hearn's first priority is still to Sky Sports and the UK, he wanted to dabble in a new market, was able to sign a pretty marquee fighter, and now has said fighter in position for a chance at arguably the three biggest money fights that can be made at the weight (Alvarez and the Golovkin rematch are both PPV fights, and Jacobs-Saunders or Jacobs-Lemieux are also big fights that may not merit PPV).

I think Wilder's connection with Showtime is being oversold to. He doesn't have one. He's free to fight wherever. He should go wherever the money is & the money is where Joshua is.

And idk that HBO needs to do anything more than pay more than Showtime for US rights. Whatever Showtime is paying I suspect HBO could spend equal or more. They doubled the recent offer Showtime had made for the Pulev fight. To me thats a big sign of things to come when there is no binding terms to Showtime keeping Joshua with them & when Joshua's promoter is with HBO. Hearn sells this whole US Matchroom Boxing thing a whooooooole lot better with Joshua headlining these HBO cards & having Jacobs as the co-main til they get Jacobs gets those fights with GGG or Canelo or other future US pick up co-main for Joshua.

[Eff Pandas]

It's becoming abundantly clear that this is their plan. Joshua won't even mention Wilder unless pushed by the interviewer. It's a b*tch move but the game is the game I suppose. Joshua has a guaranteed $10 million whenever he fights in the UK and everybody bending over to get a shot. Wilder doesn't have much leverage. He'll probably end up fighting over in the UK whenever he gets his chance.

Yea that recent lean by Joshua seems more telling the more I think of it. I was thinking it was some meta game sh^t at first, but now I'm thinking its the writing on the wall.

You don't wanna hype a Wilder fight right now, like Showtime is trying to do in that recent ad, if you are about to flip over to HBO while Showtime & Wilder have some weird agreement via Haymon or DiBella or whatever the f#ck is going on there which likely means the fight isn't in the pipeline within 12 months (as I know I was thinking).

But yea Wilder should do whatever he needs to. Anyone who's the B side needs to realize they gotta suck it up a lil more than they want to or wait til the other guy is ready or talk a super good game to steer things more your way. Thats just how it is when you aren't the money guy.

We've all seen this over & over with Floyd & Manny opponents, with GGG with this Canelo thing for too long too & this Joshua vs Wilder thing is likely to get pushed back, but not as far back as it could if Wilder plays his cards right &/or bends the right way.

[Scipio2009]

I think Wilder's connection with Showtime is being oversold to. He doesn't have one. He's free to fight wherever. He should go wherever the money is & the money is where Joshua is.

And idk that HBO needs to do anything more than pay more than Showtime for US rights. Whatever Showtime is paying I suspect HBO could spend equal or more. They doubled the recent offer Showtime had made for the Pulev fight. To me thats a big sign of things to come when there is no binding terms to Showtime keeping Joshua with them & when Joshua's promoter is with HBO. Hearn sells this whole US Matchroom Boxing thing a whooooooole lot better with Joshua headlining these HBO cards & having Jacobs as the co-main til they get Jacobs gets those fights with GGG or Canelo or other future US pick up co-main for Joshua.

I guess we'll see; the price has gone up (and Top Rank leaving likely let some money on the table) to a market level, but I sincerely doubt that HBO is going to put $10m from whatever their budget is to broadcast three stadium fights for Joshua (with no viable opponent beyond Wilder for a US PPV, imo); Showtime has spent the money they've spent, have put up $3m for the Pulev fight, will still have to settle the Luis Ortiz mandatory (whether HBO goes to the well again is anyone's guess), and will then cash in on the Wilder-Joshua fights.

Add to that, Daniel Jacobs isn't going to be fighting for cheap either, so co-feature status is a big ask, imo.

[Eff Pandas]

I guess we'll see; the price has gone up (and Top Rank leaving likely let some money on the table) to a market level, but I sincerely doubt that HBO is going to put $10m from whatever their budget is to broadcast three stadium fights for Joshua (with no viable opponent beyond Wilder for a US PPV, imo); Showtime has spent the money they've spent, have put up $3m for the Pulev fight, will still have to settle the Luis Ortiz mandatory (whether HBO goes to the well again is anyone's guess), and will then cash in on the Wilder-Joshua fights.

I just don't understand why its so reasonable to you for Showtime to afford Joshua, but not HBO. I think they got similar budgets if HBO doesn't have a bigger budget. If Showtime can afford Joshua, who they just had to double their offer for the Pulev fight due to their matching deal since HBO doubled up on it, HBO can right? Whats crazy about that? And HBO is working with Joshua's promoter now. That just makes seem like an easier thing to setup moving forward + Joshua has distanced himself from a Wilder fight with recent comments.

Add to that, Daniel Jacobs isn't going to be fighting for cheap either, so co-feature status is a big ask, imo.

Thats just me speculating a lil further down the rabbit hole of what Hearn could do. I do think its possible Joshua + Jacobs could be the prized ponies of US Matchroom Boxing with a couple US pick ups co-maining with Joshua + Jacobs. I mean I don't expect Joshua to go full US oriented anyway so Jacobs will likely need to be the ticket seller, but I don't really see Luis Arias as THAT big of a fight & if he gots more fights like that before he gets a big one vs Canelo, GGG or BJS or something big big than I don't think a co-headline spot beneath Joshua would be a awful idea to make a super solid card.

[N/A]

I just don't understand why its so reasonable to you for Showtime to afford Joshua, but not HBO.

Showtime has the bigger budget.

[Eff Pandas]

Showtime has the bigger budget.

Source????

[Tygshsu]

What i dont get,is Hearn wants the exclusive HBO deal,he want to be the only promoter to have HBO dates in a couple of years time,to do that,he needs to please them.If his biggest and most marketable fighter,is in a divison which HBO have always been long associated with,how can Hearn have him,on their main rivals platform.HBO is bigger than Showtime,so he would benefit from Joshua being on their,and when was the last time HBO failed to market a Foreign Fighter.I dont see how Hearn can work with HBO and not mess up relations with Showtime,who he has build a good rapport with.

[Scipio2009]

I just don't understand why its so reasonable to you for Showtime to afford Joshua, but not HBO. I think they got similar budgets if HBO doesn't have a bigger budget. If Showtime can afford Joshua, who they just had to double their offer for the Pulev fight due to their matching deal since HBO doubled up on it, HBO can right? Whats crazy about that? And HBO is working with Joshua's promoter now. That just makes seem like an easier thing to setup moving forward + Joshua has distanced himself from a Wilder fight with recent comments.



Thats just me speculating a lil further down the rabbit hole of what Hearn could do. I do think its possible Joshua + Jacobs could be the prized ponies of US Matchroom Boxing with a couple US pick ups co-maining with Joshua + Jacobs. I mean I don't expect Joshua to go full US oriented anyway so Jacobs will likely need to be the ticket seller, but I don't really see Luis Arias as THAT big of a fight & if he gots more fights like that before he gets a big one vs Canelo, GGG or BJS or something big big than I don't think a co-headline spot beneath Joshua would be a awful idea to make a super solid card.

Showtime has a ready-made series of bouts to make the money back on, simply put.

Wilder is set in the boxing world and has a name that gets mentioned in the general sports world, and Anthony Joshua is set in the boxing world and has a name that gets mentioned in the general sports world. They fight back-to-back at the end of October, will both have another fight come the early Spring, get both guys out in the public however possible from April through the summer, and you've likely got 800k-1m PPV homes for the showdown in August. And, if the fight is as good as folks imagine, you get another PPV event (likely bigger) come December/January 2019. On those two fights alone, even with the production costs, Showtime likely ends up winning out on the money invested.

Is HBO really going to put up the now $3m for the Luis Ortiz fight, put up something similar for a likely Joseph Parker fight, and then try to gamble with "Big Baby" Miller on PPV? I don't know.

Outside of the Klitschko rematch, the biggest fight out there for Matchroom Sport/Joshua is Joshua-Wilder, and it's not even all that close (markets are markets, but I think Joshua-Klitschko set the maximum mark for what Eddie Hearn could ever see being generated in the UK).

And the only issue with the Jacob's co-feature spot is that Jacobs was sitting on $1.5m paydays with Haymon, allegedly got $1.75m +PPV points/sponsors for the Golovkin fight, and headed over to HBO with clear Showtime interest in him. The Arias fight will give us a better look, but I can't think of my instances where a co-feature was sitting on $1.5m+ for a fight.

[Scipio2009]

... not exactly

What i dont get,is Hearn wants the exclusive HBO deal,he want to be the only promoter to have HBO dates in a couple of years time,to do that,he needs to please them.If his biggest and most marketable fighter,is in a divison which HBO have always been long associated with,how can Hearn have him,on their main rivals platform.HBO is bigger than Showtime,so he would benefit from Joshua being on their,and when was the last time HBO failed to market a Foreign Fighter.I dont see how Hearn can work with HBO and not mess up relations with Showtime,who he has build a good rapport with.

Eddie Hearn can dream about whatever he wants to dream about for years down the line, the only broadcaster that he needs to earnestly please is Sky Sports, full stop. There's no way that Hearn risks the lifeblood of his company to try and massage a deal with a US broadcaster that's shone waning interest in the sport.

No idea of any business relationship, but Showtime and Sky Sports seem to work well together. No quibbling over the feed, no interjecting over what the production looks like, etc.

Hearn will satisfy the UK market first, but I see him being diplomatic with where he ends up placing his world-level fighters (Jacobs having the better middleweight options on HBO, Showtime being outfront with airing Joshua, Degale, Brook, etc in fights; if Callum Smith wins out the WBSS, I see him being shown in the US on Showtime, etc), with Showtime far more open and receptive to the idea than HBO has ever shown themselves to be.

[Tygshsu]

Hearn has entered the US market to be number one.He's not their to make up numbers,or whats the point of him going their,losing money and just wasting time and effort into a market,where you will never be successful.To have success he needs more than 4 dates which is what he is looking at.Showtime wont work with someone who presents shows on HBO.So it looks like Hearn is on the HBO side.This is my point,this wont make his relations with Show/Haymon any better.Yes his piority in the Uk is Sky.Sky and Showtime do have good relationships,as Showtime supplies content to Sky,for their Sky Atlantic Channel.But so do HBO who provide most of Sky's entertainment content,so it's going to be interesting what happens with all these sport/entertainment deals between the trio.Also the three most known boxing broadcasters,who have backed the sport,than most others.