Why didn't Hagler challenge himself

[low blows]

Only one organization recognized 168 in the early to mid 80's and that was the IBF, whose first champion was Murray Sutherland who wasn't more than a journeyman fighter at the world level. Nobody went up to 168 until the late 80's and even then the title was considered worthless. The other junior belts were originally viewed in the same light. I too lived through and watched the fights live from this era.

[djtmal]

In 1987, 2017, in 2057 it wasn't a big risk and it will never be a big risk.

oh ok he had the "power within" you can say that for any fighter. Fact is he was well past his best, retired and fighting at a weight class he'd never fought at.

No, you can't say every fighter has the right stuff within, there's plenty of fighters that get tagged a couple of times and they immediately go into survival mode. Thats what separates the men from the boys. Camacho was tearing s**t up until he ran into a Rosario right hand remember that?

Another fact is, he is Sugar Ray Leonard, who stopped Hearns after being outboxed, and toyed with Duran, made him quit in a rematch after dropping a decision going toe to toe with him. A more prime version than Hagler faced. You don't just dismiss those facts because he'd been on the shelf for a couple of years. This guy always got up for the big fights, and stuff like that doesn't show up on a stat sheet.

Hagler took a big risk because of his ****iness and arrogance in how he, obviously you, and a whole lot of cats who bet Hagler, looked at just the one fact that Srl was inactive. Hagler gave up ring size to Srl, and everything else for the big payday. I looked at all the angles and bet Srl in 1987. You just looked at the one angle and probably lost money betting Hagler. That was a major upset.

[New England]

Maybe you shouldn't waste your time because you obviously have a problem reading.

Stick to what I said, not to what I didn't say and what you thought I said. That's a good start.

i read just fine


let's hear it, then. why did you even bring up 168 lbs?

[djtmal]

[QUOTE=john l;18180175]

Good points esp about what was thought of ssl before fight and what he really had left.He looked like sugar of old in that fight.

Thank you. Yes he turned back the clock in that fight. I thought he was a prettyboy/media darling until I saw how he handled Benitez, and Hearns. He had earned my respect.

[john l]

yep. He knocked out my mans Julian Jackson on the Tyson/Mcneely undercard(that card was stacked. Joe HIpp/Seldon and Lamar Murphy/Gonzalez). Then Keith Holmes knocked out Taylor in a bad stoppage.

Yea and he also lost a good deal of his prime.Real slick good puncher and a good chin.Fightin a maybe little older Jackson(maybe best one punch ko artist ive seen) prove's that.

[john l]

[QUOTE=djtmal;18181435]

Thank you. Yes he turned back the clock in that fight. I thought he was a prettyboy/media darling until I saw how he handled Benitez, and Hearns. He had earned my respect.

Yea its kind weird to think of how quick he made a HOF carear. I mean from 79-81 he had already became ATG

[daggum]

Thank you. Yes he turned back the clock in that fight. I thought he was a prettyboy/media darling until I saw how he handled Benitez, and Hearns. He had earned my respect.

leonard was like floyd except leonard actually fulfilled his potential. floyd never did. just took on old past it fighters and cherry picked unfortunately. canat believe some people put them in the same class. prime benite, prime hearns, prime duran, near prime hagler, and the linear 154 pound champ as a tune up. floyds resume.....:bukkake:

[john l]

No, you can't say every fighter has the right stuff within, there's plenty of fighters that get tagged a couple of times and they immediately go into survival mode. Thats what separates the men from the boys. Camacho was tearing s**t up until he ran into a Rosario right hand remember that?

Another fact is, he is Sugar Ray Leonard, who stopped Hearns after being outboxed, and toyed with Duran, made him quit in a rematch after dropping a decision going toe to toe with him. A more prime version than Hagler faced. You don't just dismiss those facts because he'd been on the shelf for a couple of years. This guy always got up for the big fights, and stuff like that doesn't show up on a stat sheet.

Hagler took a big risk because of his ****iness and arrogance in how he, obviously you, and a whole lot of cats who bet Hagler, looked at just the one fact that Srl was inactive. Hagler gave up ring size to Srl, and everything else for the big payday. I looked at all the angles and bet Srl in 1987. You just looked at the one angle and probably lost money betting Hagler. That was a major upset.

I agree with with all ssl and heart not showing on a stat sheet.There just one piece id like to debate.And that's Camacho part.I know that's the accepeted line on it but I think Camacho was starting to lose it outside of ring at the point.One thing Camacho always showed(besides his great skill when young)was a good chin.And also(and I'm sure this wont be popular esp with way he fought from 87 on) is HEART.Yea he only showed it when he had to Chavez,Trinidad but them fighte and the fact he was never stopped I think kinda prove that.I don't think Rosario(maybe best puncher at 135)made a puzz of him.I think it was a few things that made him start running.

[john l]

Also I made I nice little bit of cash of the the SSL fight with MACHO. I knew that 4-5 yrs out for SSL would be too much for an active Macho(he did fight a lot mostly3rd raters but was still in ring)And I knew SSL was his idol and would train a lot harder then he normaly did during that time.

[john l]

[QUOTE=daggum;18182162]

leonard was like floyd except leonard actually fulfilled his potential. floyd never did. just took on old past it fighters and cherry picked unfortunately. canat believe some people put them in the same class. prime benite, prime hearns, prime duran, near prime hagler, and the linear 154 pound champ as a tune up. floyds resume.....:bukkake:

Well I cant talk to you about Floyd either it seems(one of the best ever),But nice call on the Quincy Tayler yesterday I could remember everthing about him but his name lol.Maybe we will find some common ground at some point. ps any body that remembers QT(unless you just ran to boxrec)knows some boxing.I give you some credit which makes me wonder why you cant see the greatness in Ward and ESP MAYWEATHER.