Originally posted by Thraxox
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P4P resume and skill wise, who is better than floyd?
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Originally posted by Thraxox View PostAli is not known for beating Henry Cooper, he is known for beating Joe Frazier, George Foreman, and Norton.
Pacquiao is not known for beating Vargas, Algerie, he is known for beating Juan Manuel Marquez, Marco Antonio Barrera, Erik Morales, Tim Bradley
SRL is not known for beating Green, Mayweather Sr. He is known for beating Roberto Duran, Thomas Hearns, And Marvin Hagler.
Greats are known for beating other greats when they were at their best.
I can easily say Ali's Norton wins don't count because they were controversial and people think he lost against Norton. Additionally both Ali's Liston wins are shady because of mob connections and 'the phantom punch'.
I can say SRL fought Duran at a weight above his prime weight. I can say SRL fought Hagler after he'd noticeably declined and had a war with a guy like Mugabe.
I don't make these arguments because i don't believe in going out of my way to diminish wins the way you do to Floyd.
edit: Loads of these wins you mentioned weren't these guys at their best, but you won't ever admit that. You'll diminish Floyd's Cotto win because he was 'war torn' but won't apply that to other people's wins. The cotto win is good, same as Mosley coming off his big win over Marg, same as undefeated Hatton, same as Pac coming off wins over top welter's like Bradley, same top guys Castillo and Corrales. Give him credit.Last edited by Jiub; 07-15-2017, 10:34 PM.
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Originally posted by RussTBE View PostHell no lol. Maidana was not the same fighter that lost to khan. He improved under garcia and developed a pretty good jab.
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Originally posted by Jiub View PostExcept you're unwilling to diminish any of those wins you listed like you do to Floyd. I can easily say Pac's win over Morales is no good because Morales just recently lost to Barrerra and then lost to Raheem directly before the pac rematch.
I can easily say Ali's Norton wins don't count because they were controversial and people think he lost against Norton. Additionally both Ali's Liston wins are shady because of mob connections and 'the phantom punch'.
I can say SRL fought Duran at a weight above his prime weight. I can say SRL fought Hagler after he'd noticeably declined and had a war with a guy like Mugabe.
I don't make these arguments because i don't believe in going out of my way to diminish wins the way you do to Floyd.
edit: Loads of these wins you mentioned weren't these guys at their best, but you won't ever admit that. You'll diminish Floyd's Cotto win because he was 'war torn' but won't apply that to other people's wins. The cotto win is good, same as Mosley coming off his big win over Marg, same as undefeated Hatton, same as Pac coming off wins over top welter's like Bradley, same top guys Castillo and Corrales. Give him credit.
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Originally posted by madsweeney View PostDifference is, of course, you can make those arguments with the greats. You can't really say it with Floyd because, other than Pac, he fought no other greats. Lots of good, not greats.Last edited by Jiub; 07-15-2017, 10:51 PM.
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Originally posted by Jiub View PostNo, you're just applying different standards to current fighters about what constitutes great. Outside of Ali Norton doesn't have great wins. If he's a great then DLH, Cotto, and Mosley are great. But i'm just gonna be called an ignorant new fan.
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I think these guys beat Mayweather.
Ray Leonard
Ray Robinson
Tommy Hearns.
Hearns had too much power. Tommy had very fast hands in his prime. He outboxed Wilfred Benitez another defensive wizard. I don't think Tommy has ever been out boxed by anyone. He's been stopped but I don't recall him losing on points. Not 100% sure of that.
Duran in his prime.
Possibly Carmen Basilio.Last edited by TonyGe; 07-15-2017, 11:01 PM.
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defense, no one is better than floyd in my opinion
overall skills, sweetpea and duran were better p4p
resume-wise, probably in the lower top 20
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Originally posted by Thraxox View PostThey were greats but the question is, where they the greats at their prime?
You see what I mean? You can diminish many of these wins which make these guys all time greats. You refuse to apply the same scrutiny to other's as you do to Mayweather. Floyd faught many of his opponents coming off big wins but you won't give him credit.
Marquez, Cotto, Pac, Hatton, Canelo, Maidana, Corales, Castillo, Genera Hernandez, at the time of all these fights were each very good to great wins.Last edited by Jiub; 07-15-2017, 11:03 PM.
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