Can Ward beat any of the Cruiserweight title holders?

[Mr Objecitivity]

I know this is ironic because this is Ward, a LHW, we're talking about, but I think these CW guys are being a bit overrated. Ward beats them, and not just barely, but I think he wins fairly comfortably from what i've seen of them.

What feats, accomplishments or record does Ward have at cruiserweight which suggests that not only could he beat some cruiserweights, but the absolute best cruiserweights so decisively as you're claiming?

Ward's light heavyweight accomplishments or super middleweight accomplishments account for very little at cruiserweight against cruiserweight boxers. The same reason why GGG's success at middleweight has very little bearing on how he'd do at 175 pounds against top opponents there. This applies for any other boxer.

Also, how are the top modern cruiserweights overrated?

That was pretty much the selling point of Jones vs Ruiz though, the power of a HW. It's like, yeah Jones is better than him P4P, but can he take all of his punches? What will happen if Ruiz lands a punch? Ohh man so exciting!

There's a big difference between John Ruiz and Oleksandr Usyk.

Oleksandr Usyk is one of the best cruiserweight champions today. Whilst John Ruiz was one of the worst heavyweight champions in his time. So if Ward does beat Usyk, I'd give him even more credit than Roy Jones Jr beating John Ruiz. However, I think Ward stands less of a chance of beating Usyk than Roy Jones Jr had of beating Ruiz.

these guys look very slow and often times sloppy.

IF you're referring to modern cruiserweights, then I'd like to know how they are slow and sloppy.

Some of the fastest and most athletic cruiserweights like Usyk are as fast as anybody can be at that size. Of course they won't be as fast as a Lomachenko, but they are as fast as they need to be.

We'll see how fast Ward is when he moves up to cruiserweight.

I personally think Oleksandr Usyk is AT THE VERY LEAST, just as fast as Muhammad Ali was at his best but is technically much better than him

[-Kev-]

What feats, accomplishments or record does Ward have at cruiserweight which suggests that not only could he beat some cruiserweights, but the absolute best cruiserweights so decisively as you're claiming?

Ward's light heavyweight accomplishments or super middleweight accomplishments account for very little at cruiserweight against cruiserweight boxers. The same reason why GGG's success at middleweight has very little bearing on how he'd do at 175 pounds against top opponents there. This applies for any other boxer.

Also, how are the top modern cruiserweights overrated?



There's a big difference between John Ruiz and Oleksandr Usyk.

Oleksandr Usyk is one of the best cruiserweight champions today. Whilst John Ruiz was one of the worst heavyweight champions in his time. So if Ward does beat Usyk, I'd give him even more credit than Roy Jones Jr beating John Ruiz. However, I think Ward stands less of a chance of beating Usyk than Roy Jones Jr had of beating Ruiz.



IF you're referring to modern cruiserweights, then I'd like to know how they are slow and sloppy.

Some of the fastest and most athletic cruiserweights like Usyk are as fast as anybody can be at that size. Of course they won't be as fast as a Lomachenko, but they are as fast as they need to be.

We'll see how fast Ward is when he moves up to cruiserweight.

I personally think Oleksandr Usyk is AT THE VERY LEAST, just as fast as Muhammad Ali was at his best but is technically much better than him

You're clearly high on the CW class. You should lower your expectations of them, because Ward is gonna take a title up there soon and you obviously will be surprised. I guess Ward taking a title from one of the current champs is gonna be a much bigger feat to you. That's great, I expect you to give Ward lots of credit when he does it.

[Mr Objecitivity]

You're clearly high on the CW class. You should lower your expectations of them, because Ward is gonna take a title up there soon and you obviously will be surprised. I guess Ward taking a title from one of the current champs is gonna be a much bigger feat to you. That's great, I expect you to give Ward lots of credit when he does it.

You're clearly high on the CW class

You're clearly high on Ward, making it seem like he is somehow as talented or competent as Roy Jones Jr (who was significantly more unique).

You should lower your expectations of them

I'd state that you should lower your expectations of Ward.

because Ward is gonna take a title up there soon and you obviously will be surprised.

I'll wait for it to happen. In the meantime, the chances of Ward beating Usyk is as high as GGG beating Artur Beterbiev, which is extremely low.

I guess Ward taking a title from one of the current champs is gonna be a much bigger feat to you.

Winning a title from a higher weight division is almost always more impressive than winning a title from a lower weight division for me. Winning a title from the heaviest weight division (heavyweight) is the most impressive to me.

So if a boxer was truly capable of winning a title from a heavier weight class, which in this case Ward being able to win a title at cruiserweight, then why would he go to light heavyweight when he could just skip it altogether to move immediately to cruiserweight?

Roy Jones Jr moved immediately to heavyweight and won a title there whilst skipping cruiserweight.

I expect you to give Ward lots of credit when he does it.

I certainly would IF he manages it legitimately.

[HanzGruber]

MAAAAAYBE Lebedev or Gassiev. Maybe.

Definitely not Usyk or Briedis

I'd say the opposite lol. Gassiev hits like a fuking mule. He'd put ward to sleep

[BrometheusBob.]

I'd say the opposite lol. Gassiev hits like a fuking mule. He'd put ward to sleep

Gassiev does have a lot of power, true. But Usyk is a bigger dude that would be hard to muscle with on the inside. Let's just say while Ward able to break free of Kov's clinch attempts in round 8, the same wouldn't happen with Usyk.

[NEETzsche]

He could barely outbox the African.

That's the African Mayweather so show a little respect

That was pretty much the selling point of Jones vs Ruiz though, the power of a HW. It's like, yeah Jones is better than him P4P, but can he take all of his punches? What will happen if Ruiz lands a punch? Ohh man so exciting!

While Ward is not Jones in terms of reflexes and elusiveness, these guys look very slow and often times sloppy. Usyk could one day be a lot better (he's already 30, no spring chicken), but right now from what i've seen of him, and as small as Ward would be 25lbs north, I think he takes him in at least an 8-4 fight.

I think Ward vs Bellew, if that fight gets done, will make it more believable, that Ward can beat one of those titleholders.

I dunno, I think if Ward wins it has to be like 12-0 or nothing. Either he's simply too fast and skilful for them to land a glove on him, or he eventually gets touched and it's all downhill from there. Usyk, Lebedev and Briedis set their punches up rather well and Gassiev brings a lot of pressure so there's a good chance they'd find the mark at some point. Bellew is probably enough of a ****house that Ward could 12-0 him though. Then again, after a cycle of "Ripped Fuel" maybe he'd fill out just fine. He's as tall as most cruisers so I guess he could carry some extra muscle well enough. It'd be interesting

[Cutthroat]

Oleksandr beat Mchunu in practically every department. In fact, Usyk beat Mchunu much more convincingly than Ward beat Kovalev.

Furthermore, Mchunu is a proven cruiserweight with many feats in that division. On the other hand, Ward has 0 feats at cruiserweight. So there is absolutely no reason to assume by default that Ward will be as good as a cruiserweight with the added weight as he has been below cruiserweight.


So as it stands, Mchuni is a BETTER CRUISERWEIGHT than Andre Ward. Thus, him giving Usyk slight difficulties is no direct evidence that a naturally skilled sub -cruiserweight would also be able to do the same.

Nobody considers Mchunu a P4P fighter, Kovalev is/was considered by many as at least top 15 in the sport. Bellew beat the guy that KTFO of Mchunu.

As far as Usyk's comparisons to Kovalev, Usyk is knocking out opponents MUCH heavier than the average knockout victims of Kovalev. So just based on that, Usyk is a more proven OVERALL power puncher than Kovalev. However, one might argue Kovalev is a harder puncher P4P (which is a different case). So Ward getting punched by Usyk would likely inflict greater damage than getting punched by Kovalev.

Again, I bring up examples of RJJ going 10 rounds with prime Lebedev (even rocking him), Bellew knocking out guys that haven't been stopped before and beating the guy that beat Mchunu already, Edison Miranda going a full 12 with Dorticos whom has 21 wins 20 KO's. Vlasov stopping guys never stopped before etc. the added weight gives these guys extra power and significant durability.

Also, Usyk is definitely very accurate. He is a superior combination puncher than Kovalev and has superior footwork.

He was missing a ton of punches against Mchunu, he throws punches in bunches but isn't very accurate when fighting a small target. He was getting brutalized in the amateurs by Beterbiev whom rocked him to the head and dropped him with a body shot. If it was a pro fight he would've been finished, he showed the same flaws against Mchunu who also rocked him.

Ward also showed in the Olympics how effective he is against larger fighters. He voluntarily fought at 178 (to allow Dirrell a shot at gold) and thoroughly out boxed guys like gold medalist Clemente Russo and even won gold against 6'5 Evgeny Makarenko whom hadn't lost in like 5 years.

Usyk also showed in the Olympics how much he struggled with smaller fighters, Beterbiev put him down with a body shot and rocked him to the head. If it were a pro fight BB would've KO'd him, we saw some of these same flaws against Mchunu.

Tony Bellew is a natural cruiserweight who boiled down to compete at light heavyweight. So his success isn't evidence of cruiserweight not being good.

Bellew looks fat at cruiser, really soft around the mid section, even against Haye he looked very fat and still was taking flush punches from him. Extra weight=increased durability.

If the cruiserweight division was so weak, why aren't more of the top light heavyweights moving up to cruiserweight and becoming champions there? A boxer should go the heaviest division possible that he is able to win and compete well at. So why did Ward move up to light heavyweight instead of making the direct jump to cruiserweight if he was so good that he could beat top cruiserweights like Usyk? It's most likely because he wouldn't be as competent against cruiserweights due to his lack of size.

They are, Ward is talking about fighting at HW, he may very well fight at cruiser. Vlasov and Bellew have seen considerable success at the weight as well stopping guys never stopped before. The only legit fighters I really see in the division are Usyk and Gassiev. It's a top heavy division.

[Sheikh]

Usyk is a gold medalist and he has good stamina overall and good but not great power. On fight night he probably gets to 220 if not heavier. If ward were to go to CW he would probably rehydrate to 200 (I assume he would weigh in at like 190 and not much higher). He would be way smaller. A guy like Usyk would bum rush him knowing Ward cant punch at all and probably can not take too many CW shots flush.

As someone said few Light Heavyweights are moving to Cruiser. I think Kovalev would do better at CW then Ward because he has punching power that would prevent people from bum rushing him. I also think usyk would beat kovalev and so would gassiev.

[-PBP-]

None of those guys control distance as well as Kovalev. Kovalev had success because he was able to beat Ward on the outside.

In this case, Ward is better than all of those fighters at all distances.

[maracho]

Virgil Hunter already said that he was going to skip Cruiser and fight so called better fighters at heavy like the Englishman that whooped Klitchko