Comments Thread For: Errol Spence - Legacy Enhancement: Phase 1

[Butch.McRae]

Few were as high as I was on Spence before the Brook fight, but I don't buy that his bodywork over the first 6 was effective.

Yes he was trying to use his free left to land body punches before and during clinches, consistently and rightly so, but Brook was covering and moving so that the shots rarely landed cleanly. Some got home, but not enough to account for Brook's later slowdown. We've seen so many fights where consistent and clean body shots are ripped in over the first 6, then when the opponent stops moving and their guard starts to drop, its clearly due to accumulated investment in the body. This wasn't one of those fights. Spence's body attack was largely smothered, and a well conditioned athlete (at the right weight) could have ridden into the later rounds without being materially diminished.

If anything, I've noticed I maybe give more credit to body work than many judges do (based on my scoring vs theirs sometimes), so its not a case of misunderstanding or giving less credit than is due. Spence just didn't land the volume of body shots with the right placement and intensity to get the job done in the first 6 (and credit to Brook for that).

For me, Spence was disappointing over the first 6 in not solving the puzzle in front of him and starting to dominate earlier. It was only when Brook visibly slowed after round 6 (Spence only started to land clean shots in numbers in round 7) that Spence began to dominate.

In my mind Spence only proved he can dominate and beat a diminished Brook (post the 6th round), but not one on form (first 6). And the golden question comes back to 'well, if Spence was responsible for the opponent being diminished after 6, then that's a comprehensive and strong victory over someone as strong as Brook'.

But I don't buy that Spence was responsible for the opponents form dropping off - he was part of the equation for sure, but a well conditioned WW (at the right weight) would have ridden those first 6 and still be as strong as Spence was late on.

And who exactly is this fictional well conditioned welterweight? Brook was the only guy with the physical make-up to handle Errol's work at 147 or below.

All of what you said sounds good in theory, but the reality is what we saw in the fight. The guy threw more than 600 punches over 10 rounds and landed nearly 40% of them. Most of these shots were to the body. It's easy talk about what you think didn't happen, but boxing history tells us an accumulation of body shots always pay dividends. From round 1, you saw Errol landing solid shots to the body in exchanges and on the clinch. Even when Kell landed, Spence nearly countered on every exchange with a shot to the body.

They may not have seemed like powerful shots to you, but Kell's body language in round six and forward showed he was responding to the punches. He was leaning on every shot after that round.

[Sledgeweather17]

Few were as high as I was on Spence before the Brook fight, but I don't buy that his bodywork over the first 6 was effective.

Yes he was trying to use his free left to land body punches before and during clinches, consistently and rightly so, but Brook was covering and moving so that the shots rarely landed cleanly. Some got home, but not enough to account for Brook's later slowdown. We've seen so many fights where consistent and clean body shots are ripped in over the first 6, then when the opponent stops moving and their guard starts to drop, its clearly due to accumulated investment in the body. This wasn't one of those fights. Spence's body attack was largely smothered, and a well conditioned athlete (at the right weight) could have ridden into the later rounds without being materially diminished.

If anything, I've noticed I maybe give more credit to body work than many judges do (based on my scoring vs theirs sometimes), so its not a case of misunderstanding or giving less credit than is due. Spence just didn't land the volume of body shots with the right placement and intensity to get the job done in the first 6 (and credit to Brook for that).

For me, Spence was disappointing over the first 6 in not solving the puzzle in front of him and starting to dominate earlier. It was only when Brook visibly slowed after round 6 (Spence only started to land clean shots in numbers in round 7) that Spence began to dominate.

In my mind Spence only proved he can dominate and beat a diminished Brook (post the 6th round), but not one on form (first 6). And the golden question comes back to 'well, if Spence was responsible for the opponent being diminished after 6, then that's a comprehensive and strong victory over someone as strong as Brook'.

But I don't buy that Spence was responsible for the opponents form dropping off - he was part of the equation for sure, but a well conditioned WW (at the right weight) would have ridden those first 6 and still be as strong as Spence was late on.

Lol, you're a joke man. One can count the number of fighters who can keep that fight at the kind of pace Spence set for 12 full rounds. At welterweight only Shawn Porter can fight at that pace for twelve rounds, literally no one else besides Spence and Porter can.

Body shots aside, you also have to factor in how much energy Brook would have burned tryna clinch and tryna run from Spence. Every time he clinched Spence broke his clinch and smashed him with body shots, and even when Brook did succeed, he was clearly using all of his energy just to stop Spence from ripping him up.

When he tried to back away, Spence was all over him, pushing him against the ropes and smashing him on the arms, on the chest, on the body, and on the head.

Even after Brook had success with combos, Spence would immediately retaliate and close him down.

Usually people get a chance to rest after landing a decent combo coz it will send the other fighter reeling back and it will make em more cautious and methodical in their approach for fear of being hit again, but not with Spence, Spence was all over him, every split second of the fight.

So yes it's not 'just' the body shots, but also Spence's insane stamina and relentlessness, and just his heavy handedness, even the punches that were blocked would have made Brook's arms heavy as hell coz Spence hits like a freight train.

Foreman used to do the same and if you listen to his commentary during fights he would mention it all the time, that you gotta **** that body and **** those arms as well coz it wears the fighter down in the stretch.

Brook suffered the same even against GGG, at MIDDLEWEIGHT, you could tell late in the fourth round already he was getting tired because GGG was bringing the pressure. He wasn't getting a chance to rest and re-set because GGG was on him every single second of the fight, and of course he is bigger and stronger than Spence.

Again people blamed it on weight, saying Brook's stamina would suffer because of all the weight he put on. So which is it? Is weight gonna be the excuse no matter which weight class he is on?

Ps. Brook and his fans used the weight excuse for the struggles he had in the Carson Jones fight as well.

[Kartier_3we]

What Legacy?

He beat a dude who aint fight since he got a career ending injury. Let em fight someone who is active with no injuries like Thurman, Garcia or Porter. Stop praising a victory that is based on true circumstances around the fight that REALLY MATTER.

[Shadoww702]

And who exactly is this fictional well conditioned welterweight? Brook was the only guy with the physical make-up to handle Errol's work at 147 or below.

All of what you said sounds good in theory, but the reality is what we saw in the fight. The guy threw more than 600 punches over 10 rounds and landed nearly 40% of them. Most of these shots were to the body. It's easy talk about what you think didn't happen, but boxing history tells us an accumulation of body shots always pay dividends. From round 1, you saw Errol landing solid shots to the body in exchanges and on the clinch. Even when Kell landed, Spence nearly countered on every exchange with a shot to the body.

They may not have seemed like powerful shots to you, but Kell's body language in round six and forward showed he was responding to the punches. He was leaning on every shot after that round.

EXACTLY!!! But some reason a lot of ppl ignore body shots and don't count them when they score rounds...I don't! I would rather get hit in the head then laid out by a liver shot and not being able to breath and piss blood for a WEEK.

[SkillspayBills]

Phase 2 is Thurman
Phase 3 is Crawford, Danny, and Porter
Phase 4 is moving up to 154!

[r1onnie2]

Phase 2 is Thurman
Phase 3 is Crawford, Danny, and Porter
Phase 4 is moving up to 154!

I would say Phase 2 should be Danny and Porter, Phase 3 Thurman and Crawford and Phase 4 move to 154

[BaDaBingVIP2]

most of those body shots werent clean but were effective blows. shots that are blocked by elbow and forearms does damage. some even were a little low on the hip. the accumulation of those shots took there toll. not all body shots have to land in the breadbasket to pay dividends.

[Nomadic]

He beat a dude who aint fight since he got a career ending injury. Let em fight someone who is active with no injuries like Thurman, Garcia or Porter. Stop praising a victory that is based on true circumstances around the fight that REALLY MATTER.

Thurman is having surgery now, so when he loses to Spence, would that surgery fall up under career ending injury too?

[angkag]

Lol, you're a joke man. One can count the number of fighters who can keep that fight at the kind of pace Spence set for 12 full rounds...... At welterweight only Shawn Porter can fight at that pace for twelve rounds, literally no one else besides Spence and Porter can.

You're kidding right ? Its pretty much minimum standards these days that you go at that pace for 12, no matter what weight you at.

The first 6 rounds weren't anything like some of the madness we've seen in fights like Hagler/Hearns (or many others) where there was just no way they could keep that.

The pace of those first 6 rounds wasn't blistering by any stretch of the imagination, I would expect Garcia, Thurman, Porter, Algieri, Pac, even frigging Khan to be able to keep that pace up.

edit: oh yes, forgot Bradley, he could do 15 at that pace

[ShoulderRoll]

Thrre are areas where he can improve and develop.

I say that not as criticism but in admiration. He's already very good but imagine what can be if he gets better?