Are promoters freezing out PBC?

[OnePunch]

Lmao you won the argument against them several comments ago. Why waste your time?

im a glutton for punishment lol

[BlakBread904]

Because for 30 years, HBO was willing to spend SOOOO much money buying fights that the networks gave up. But now that HBO is spending 10-20% of what they used to spend, suddenly premium level boxing becomes more feasible on network TV.

Thurman & Garcia were paid a reasonable amount. CBS got over 5 million viewers. Beating the NBA & NHL on ABC & NBC head to head. Would the fight have been affordable for CBS if HBO was still spending $100 million a year on boxing?

No.

But with networks spending more on sports than ever and HBO spending less on sports than ever, boxing on network TV may make sense again.

what does HBO's boxing budget have to do with "premium/elite" boxing as a viable option on network tv for the big advertising dollars in 2017?

Are you saying HBO with a $100m budget would have priced CBS out? That's not certain at all. They are still SHO/PBC guys, a $100m hbo budget doesn't mean they will have access. too many assumptions your argument is depending on.

you skirting around the topic with a limited understanding of how business works. it's like YDKSAB^2 (boxing and business)

[original zero]

its easy to play Santa Claus when you have a half-billion dollars of someone elses money.

And it was easy for HBO to play Santa Claus when they were spending $100 million a year on boxing.

Lets see what he does once that well runs dry and he has to be a "rational player" just like everyone else......

Which is what HBO is experiencing now, so you can't blame Haymon and his partners for pouncing while the opportunity is there.

[original zero]

what does HBO's boxing budget have to do with "premium/elite" boxing as a viable option on network tv for the big advertising dollars in 2017?

Because as the price is driven down for top fights, the economics suddenly make sense again for non-premium networks to buy fights. Boxing didn't leave network TV because networks didn't want boxing. It left network TV because HBO drove up the price of the fights to the point where the networks didn't see value in it.

Now HBO doesn't see value in it, prices are falling, and we may get to the point again where the sport makes sense to networks that had previously pulled out of the sport.

Are you saying HBO with a $100m budget would have priced CBS out? That's not certain at all. They are still SHO/PBC guys, a $100m hbo budget doesn't mean they will have access. too many assumptions your argument is depending on.

I'm saying HBO's $100 million budget priced pretty much everybody out. There is a price point for a big fight that makes sense for non-premium TV, but HBO drove the price up past that point. Now HBO's budget is rapidly shrinking. What was Haymon supposed to do? Just let his business die off? Or try to convince other parties to grow the pie?

you skirting around the topic with a limited understanding of how business works. it's like YDKSAB^2 (boxing and business)

I've worked in television for 15+ years, including for some of the networks we're discussing. How much experience do you have selling programming to networks?

[BlakBread904]

Because as the price is driven down for top fights, the economics suddenly make sense again for non-premium networks to buy fights. Boxing didn't leave network TV because networks didn't want boxing. It left network TV because HBO drove up the price of the fights to the point where the networks didn't see value in it.

Now HBO doesn't see value in it, prices are falling, and we may get to the point again where the sport makes sense to networks that had previously pulled out of the sport.




I'm saying HBO's $100 million budget priced pretty much everybody out. There is a price point for a big fight that makes sense for non-premium TV, but HBO drove the price up past that point. Now HBO's budget is rapidly shrinking. What was Haymon supposed to do? Just let his business die off? Or try to convince other parties to grow the pie?




I've worked in television for 15+ years, including for some of the networks we're discussing. How much experience do you have selling programming to networks?

Sure you have, buddy. You say you work for this-and-that, but your posts show that you have little understanding of what you talking about. I'm not going to discuss what attracts advertisers since you're in the business and should know how it works

Last I checked, purses for boxers have not changed in the past 10-15 years in a manner consistent w/ HBO's shrinking boxing budget.

[Sweet Jones]

its easy to play Santa Claus when you have a half-billion dollars of someone elses money.

Lets see what he does once that well runs dry and he has to be a "rational player" just like everyone else......

Perhaps the better question is: Why can't (or haven't) any of the other 'rational' players been able to:

a) get ANYONE to inject a half billion dollars into the marketplace
b) get ANY additional networks to broadcast their sport beyond the premium channels

Beyond that, we've already seen Al Haymon in a 'rational market': He was the most powerful entity in the sport, with a client list full of world champions and keeping at least one network in his back pocket at all times BEFORE PBC got that investor capital.

So I'm not sure what is the point is you're making here.

[original zero]

Sure you have, buddy. You say you work for this-and-that, but your posts show that you have little understanding of what you talking about.

Then why are you struggling so much to counter any of my positions?

I'm not going to discuss what attracts advertisers since you're in the business and should know how it works

Advertisers want 18-49 year old eyeballs. And the last time boxing was on network TV, it went head to head with basketball and hockey and not only did boxing demolish basketball and hockey when it came to overall viewership, but boxing was also the #1 show of the night on network TV in the 18-49 demo.

When you consider the INSANE amount of money being spent on the TV contracts for the major sports leagues, the cost of a Garcia-Thurman type of match up is very reasonable considering it will deliver a lot of viewers in the key demo. If HBO was still spending $5 million for a big fight, the economics wouldn't work, but with HBO's evaporating budget, the cost of boxing is decreasing while the cost of every other sport is increasing and now boxing is winding up in the sweet spot where it makes sense for network TV again.

Last I checked, purses for boxers have not changed in the past 10-15 years in a manner consistent w/ HBO's shrinking boxing budget.

Then you need to check again. HBO paid $6.5 million for Winky Wright & Jermain Taylor. What would they offer for a fight of that caliber now?

[BWC]

Then why are you struggling so much to counter any of my positions?




Advertisers want 18-49 year old eyeballs. And the last time boxing was on network TV, it went head to head with basketball and hockey and not only did boxing demolish basketball and hockey when it came to overall viewership, but boxing was also the #1 show of the night on network TV in the 18-49 demo.

When you consider the INSANE amount of money being spent on the TV contracts for the major sports leagues, the cost of a Garcia-Thurman type of match up is very reasonable considering it will deliver a lot of viewers in the key demo. If HBO was still spending $5 million for a big fight, the economics wouldn't work, but with HBO's evaporating budget, the cost of boxing is decreasing while the cost of every other sport is increasing and now boxing is winding up in the sweet spot where it makes sense for network TV again.




Then you need to check again. HBO paid $6.5 million for Winky Wright & Jermain Taylor. What would they offer for a fight of that caliber now?

I don't get why Spike decided to get out of the PBC business. Seems a natural fit for its viewership and PBC couldn't have been charging very much..

But you're right, in a world where ABC/ESPN is paying the NBA $2.66bn per, boxing could deliver a very nice **** for the buck..

[original zero]

I don't get why Spike decided to get out of the PBC business. Seems a natural fit for its viewership and PBC couldn't have been charging very much..

Spike did not decide to get out of the PBC business, the CBS corporation decided to shut down Spike. CBS asked for Haymon to supply some boxing to Spike because at the time Spike was being taken in a very male driven, combat sports driven direction. Which is why kickboxing was added to the network as well.

But at the end of the year, Spike is shutting down and being relaunched as "The Paramount Network," to focus on the extensive film library the CBS corporation owns as well as devoting resources to original programming aimed at the female demographic.

With PBC's contract with Spike expiring earlier this year, it didn't make sense to negotiate a renewal when CBS already knows they're shutting down Spike and taking the channel in a completely different direction in 2018.

This is a great example of how terrible most of the boxing writers are. The head of The Paramount Network had publicly confirmed weeks prior that boxing didn't fit with the female focus of the new network, yet nobody in the boxing media picked up on the story. It was only later when the HBO propaganda machine planted the story that PBC was being kicked off of Spike that any coverage was given and none of the coverage made any mention of Spike being shut down in favor of The Paramount Network.

So you can see how these stories are twisted for propaganda purposes. The CBS corporation is spending more than ever on boxing. They get almost all of their boxing from Haymon. If the CBS corporation wants boxing on Showtime, he'll give it to them. If they want boxing on CBS, he'll give it to them. If they want boxing on Spike, he'll give it to them. It's all the same company. They don't want boxing on The Paramount Network, so he'll give them boxing on the channels they want it on.

It shows the hypocrisy of so many here and so many in the media. Complaining that PBC was on way too many channels and that it was way too confusing. Then PBC starts to focus on a few specific channels and then everybody complains that they're not on as many channels as before. It's ludicrous.

[OnePunch]

I'm saying HBO's $100 million budget priced pretty much everybody out. There is a price point for a big fight that makes sense for non-premium TV, but HBO drove the price up past that point. Now HBO's budget is rapidly shrinking. What was Haymon supposed to do? Just let his business die off? Or try to convince other parties to grow the pie?

We are having a "chicken or the egg" disagreement. You think HBO drove out the competition, and I think HBO just took up the slack when the competition lost interest.

Think about it. HBO is content driven, so when they spend $50 million or whatever (they havent spent $100 million in a very long time), there is not a tangible return on that investment. Sure, it may retain some subscribers, but absent taking the time to interview every single subscriber, it is somewhat unknown how much boxing really means to their subscriber base. HBO has steadily been reducing the budget over the past decade, and I suspect had they seen subscribers flee because of it, they would have reversed course 6 or 7 years ago. They didnt.

As for broadcast tv, they really dont have to "spend money" the same way HBO does. If NBC or CBS thought they could generate $60 million in advertising sales on a $50 million outlay, they would greenlight it in about 10 seconds. But obviously they dont think they can. And I dont think it has anything at all to do with what HBO does, because if a broadcast network REALLY saw value in boxing, they could outspend HBO with EASE, because they would be making it back in ad sales, plus profit, whereas HBO is just throwing it in a black hole.

Again, you say the chicken came first..... I say the egg.....