Comments Thread For: Lomachenko Tabs Golovkin as The Top Pound for Pound Fighter

[Corelone]

In one division. Most P4P are multi division champs.

[Hype job]

Real recognise real.

They hate to see us on top!

[Boxing Logic]

The real question is who is the P4P king? I think it's fair to say that there are about 3 or 4 guys who have an argument. GGG is in that conversation, but the body of work hurts him in comparison to others.

Who has a better body of work that also has the talent to be in that conversation?

Most had Ward losing clearly to Kovalev, and Ward has never beaten a single prime A-level fighter his entire career. Kessler and Abraham were old and slow. Froch is Ward's best clear win and Froch is also slow. HBO and Showtime never even carried Froch fights because he never had that stand-out, elite, "eye test" talent to attract the networks. Froch deserves respect for getting everything he could out of his B-fighter skill set, to elevate his status up to a B+ fighter, but he was not an A-level fighter either.

Who else? Terence Crawford lost four straight rounds to little Gamboa. GGG has never lost four straight rounds in his career, and GGG isn't even supposed to be purely that "win rounds on points" style. When a pure boxer like Crawford, who focuses on winning rounds, still loses more straight rounds than the puncher, GGG, that tells you who should rank higher. Crawford's best win is also a slow, B-level euro fighter, Postol, similar to Ward's best wins. And Crawford did not even dominate like GGG does against better opposition such as Lemieux. Crawford's performance against Postol is comparable to GGG's performance against Lemieux in terms or rounds dominance, but GGG not only won the rounds, he hurt Lemieux much more, and stopped him. He also displayed effective aggression coming forward, outboxing Lemieux coming forward. Crawford meanwhile outboxed Postol, but without the effective aggression, and without destroying Postol.

So their performances in terms of points-winning was equal, but GGG did it with effective aggression, and finished Lemieux. Lemieux is also a better fighter than Postol.

Who else? Chocolatito is a great fighter who is harder to judge because he keeps moving up. But weight aside, GGG has certainly never had to edge out 12 round decisions in pretty even wars the way Chocolatito has against Cuadras and Estrada. Chocolatito has jumped more weight classes, and accomplished more resume-wise, but GGG is the far more dominant fighter in every fight we see him in, including against opponents like Lemieux and Murray who are at least on the level of Cuadras, if not much better especially Lemieux.

That leaves basically Kovalev and Lomachenko as well. Kovalev beat Ward but he did gas, and seems to be aging or struggling with training or something. All I know is his last two fights, Chilemba and Ward, Kovalev has gotten tired pretty early. He still won both, but we might have already seen Kovalev's peak. Congratulations Adonis, you made it! Waiting paid off. Too bad Adonis has also aged though so it didn't really work out for him as well as Mayweather waiting out Pacquiao, which worked for him because he had the right style that wouldn't age as fast. Stevenson doesn't.

And then there's Lomachenko. We see Floyd outbox slow guys, and make himself look unhittable just because those guys work in slow motion compared to him, but we rarely see someone as fast as Gary Russell Jr. outboxed in that fashion where even a fast guy can't connect at all. Like imagine Amir Khan not being able to hit someone. Khan gets knocked out a lot, but before that happens, he always hits his opponents at least a few times. He's just too fast so those punches cannot all be avoided. But what Loma did is equivalent to not knocking out Amir Khan, which has been relatively easy, but pitching a shutout against Amir Khan, making it so Russell Jr. despite his speed still couldn't hit Lomachenko.

And of course, Loma one-upped that performance when he shut out Walters and made him quit. So if anyone has the combination of the eye test, and beating top opponents, and looking dominant, it's Lomachenko. But GGG has done it longer, and has way more power. He matches Lomachenko's dominance, even betters it actually because he knocks everyone out, and he matches the eye test in his own way. And, his victory over Lemieux is on par or better than Lomachenko's victory over Walters.

So if GGG can beat his own Gary Russell Jr. type opponent in Danny Jacobs, and do it with as much dominance as Loma did, then you'd have to say GGG matches Loma in those categories and overtakes Loma when you consider longevity.

So really the most logical list, when you actually look at these things objectively instead of letting who you are a fan of affect the rankings, would probably be this:

1. Loma
2. GGG
3. Chocolatito
4. Kovalev
5. Crawford

And then 6 and climbing fast will probably be Mikey Garcia in my opinion. He is also dominant both in winning rounds and hurting guys. If he starts fighting top guys his size, he could leapfrog some of these guys.

And then I think if GGG dominates Jacobs, you flip him with Loma. Likewise Kovalev and Chocolatito are interchangeable. Kovalev is more dominant and has the best win outside of hometown judges, when he knocked down and beat Ward. Chocolatito has the more weight classes, and better longevity. It just depends what you like.

By the way, if all these natural middleweights who are draining down to 154 to avoid GGG finally move up to 160, and the true 154s like JRoc can actually fight guys their size, instead of Charlo who was way bigger, then I think JRoc can make the pound for pound list too. He just needs better training or experience. The big reasons he lost that fight were that he was fighting a big middleweight who drained down to 154, and because JRoc has a bad habit of lunging in and leaning forward when he throws his right hand. But otherwise, he has P4P talent. If he can correct that bad habit, and start fighting guys his own size, I think he can beat A-level fighters at 154. He is an A-level fighter at 154 if he fixes that error. And since there aren't that many A-level fighters in boxing, by being one himself, he should be among the top 10 at some point. But not right now obviously.

Anyway, I have no idea what your issue is with Loma's P4P list. It's just logic.

[Mequetrefe]

Loma recognizes a GOAT when he sees one.

[Dean_Razorback]

loma doesn't know shit about boxing

[Larry the boss]

Real recognise real.

They hate to see us on top!

who is us???

[Larry the boss]

Who has a better body of work that also has the talent to be in that conversation?

Most had Ward losing clearly to Kovalev, and Ward has never beaten a single prime A-level fighter his entire career. Kessler and Abraham were old and slow. Froch is Ward's best clear win and Froch is also slow. HBO and Showtime never even carried Froch fights because he never had that stand-out, elite, "eye test" talent to attract the networks. Froch deserves respect for getting everything he could out of his B-fighter skill set, to elevate his status up to a B+ fighter, but he was not an A-level fighter either.

Who else? Terence Crawford lost four straight rounds to little Gamboa. GGG has never lost four straight rounds in his career, and GGG isn't even supposed to be purely that "win rounds on points" style. When a pure boxer like Crawford, who focuses on winning rounds, still loses more straight rounds than the puncher, GGG, that tells you who should rank higher. Crawford's best win is also a slow, B-level euro fighter, Postol, similar to Ward's best wins. And Crawford did not even dominate like GGG does against better opposition such as Lemieux. Crawford's performance against Postol is comparable to GGG's performance against Lemieux in terms or rounds dominance, but GGG not only won the rounds, he hurt Lemieux much more, and stopped him. He also displayed effective aggression coming forward, outboxing Lemieux coming forward. Crawford meanwhile outboxed Postol, but without the effective aggression, and without destroying Postol.

So their performances in terms of points-winning was equal, but GGG did it with effective aggression, and finished Lemieux. Lemieux is also a better fighter than Postol.

Who else? Chocolatito is a great fighter who is harder to judge because he keeps moving up. But weight aside, GGG has certainly never had to edge out 12 round decisions in pretty even wars the way Chocolatito has against Cuadras and Estrada. Chocolatito has jumped more weight classes, and accomplished more resume-wise, but GGG is the far more dominant fighter in every fight we see him in, including against opponents like Lemieux and Murray who are at least on the level of Cuadras, if not much better especially Lemieux.

That leaves basically Kovalev and Lomachenko as well. Kovalev beat Ward but he did gas, and seems to be aging or struggling with training or something. All I know is his last two fights, Chilemba and Ward, Kovalev has gotten tired pretty early. He still won both, but we might have already seen Kovalev's peak. Congratulations Adonis, you made it! Waiting paid off. Too bad Adonis has also aged though so it didn't really work out for him as well as Mayweather waiting out Pacquiao, which worked for him because he had the right style that wouldn't age as fast. Stevenson doesn't.

And then there's Lomachenko. We see Floyd outbox slow guys, and make himself look unhittable just because those guys work in slow motion compared to him, but we rarely see someone as fast as Gary Russell Jr. outboxed in that fashion where even a fast guy can't connect at all. Like imagine Amir Khan not being able to hit someone. Khan gets knocked out a lot, but before that happens, he always hits his opponents at least a few times. He's just too fast so those punches cannot all be avoided. But what Loma did is equivalent to not knocking out Amir Khan, which has been relatively easy, but pitching a shutout against Amir Khan, making it so Russell Jr. despite his speed still couldn't hit Lomachenko.

And of course, Loma one-upped that performance when he shut out Walters and made him quit. So if anyone has the combination of the eye test, and beating top opponents, and looking dominant, it's Lomachenko. But GGG has done it longer, and has way more power. He matches Lomachenko's dominance, even betters it actually because he knocks everyone out, and he matches the eye test in his own way. And, his victory over Lemieux is on par or better than Lomachenko's victory over Walters.

So if GGG can beat his own Gary Russell Jr. type opponent in Danny Jacobs, and do it with as much dominance as Loma did, then you'd have to say GGG matches Loma in those categories and overtakes Loma when you consider longevity.

So really the most logical list, when you actually look at these things objectively instead of letting who you are a fan of affect the rankings, would probably be this:

1. Loma
2. GGG
3. Chocolatito
4. Kovalev
5. Crawford

And then 6 and climbing fast will probably be Mikey Garcia in my opinion. He is also dominant both in winning rounds and hurting guys. If he starts fighting top guys his size, he could leapfrog some of these guys.

And then I think if GGG dominates Jacobs, you flip him with Loma. Likewise Kovalev and Chocolatito are interchangeable. Kovalev is more dominant and has the best win outside of hometown judges, when he knocked down and beat Ward. Chocolatito has the more weight classes, and better longevity. It just depends what you like.

By the way, if all these natural middleweights who are draining down to 154 to avoid GGG finally move up to 160, and the true 154s like JRoc can actually fight guys their size, instead of Charlo who was way bigger, then I think JRoc can make the pound for pound list too. He just needs better training or experience. The big reasons he lost that fight were that he was fighting a big middleweight who drained down to 154, and because JRoc has a bad habit of lunging in and leaning forward when he throws his right hand. But otherwise, he has P4P talent. If he can correct that bad habit, and start fighting guys his own size, I think he can beat A-level fighters at 154. He is an A-level fighter at 154 if he fixes that error. And since there aren't that many A-level fighters in boxing, by being one himself, he should be among the top 10 at some point. But not right now obviously.

Anyway, I have no idea what your issue is with Loma's P4P list. It's just logic.

Who has GGG beaten better then Froch? and Kovalev?

[Mexican_Puppet]

i agree....good boxer but lacks the opposition to be the best

Arroyo was a B Class and last 12 rounds vs Gonzalez.

Jacobs is on the same level than Cuadras and Cuadras outboxed and misshapen the face of Roman.

Golovkin is making real history in his division and has superior skills and a historical power.

[Hype job]

who is us???

We stay shinin'

they stay hatin'

[Jubei]

A true P4P talent like Loma recognizes elite Talent, like most of true elite fighters in the sport they have GGG on top.

Haters gonna hate. Stay mad haters, your tears taste delicious.