Lomachenko's & Usyk's historic pro world records now officially recognized!

[Pugilisticuffs]

I know all those differences, thats why i said in all the revelant ways theyre pro fights. Like Doug Fischer said, If it looks like a pro fight, if it’s conducted like a pro fight and if the fighters are paid like pro fighters, then WSB fights are pro fights. WSB fights were at a higher level than your regular record padding early fights....invaluable experience. The ruling is the ruling...before august of last year they were pro fights, now they are not and retroactively, they can claim those records. Not much else to say.

Doug published an article about some of the differences between WSB semi-pro bouts and pro fights on The Ring's website. The "final opinion" was given by Steve Farhood of Showtime, and that final opinion was about pay. Again, Loma & Usyk, among other top amateurs, have been paid since 2008 as amateurs (before they competed in the WSB).

You've clearly read what Fischer published a couple years ago on The Ring's website, "Vasyl Lomachenko, The WSB and the Record-Keeping Divide". Doug and Farhood apparently didn't realize that top Ams have been getting paid for the last 9 years, and AIBA approved of the prize money for boxers medaling at major tournaments; the World Cup, the World Championships, the Olympic Games, even down to the Continental Championships (ie., the European Championships) you get paid.

WSB bouts are higher level (due to top level Am talent) than the regular padded fights at the start of most fighters' pro boxing careers but Loma & Usyk fought amateurs. None of the boxers that Loma fought were established pros outside of the WSB. This likely played a part in BoxRec not recognizing them despite Fight Fax recognizing them as pro fights.

[SensFullViolenc]

Good info. Ive seen Loma haters cite those fights to argue that he didn't win the title so quickly

Honestly, the record doesn't really matter. In terms of winning a belt (and then another in another division) quickly Im more impressed with what Monster Inouye did, as he is so young.

Loma was an experienced amateur and an older dude. So winning a belt QUICKLY isn't impressive IMO.

HOWEVER, Loma IS very impressive. True p4p talent, and beating good fighter in Russell & Axeman in 2 divisions is p4p worthy.

So this doesn't really change my opinion of Loma.

[Eastcoast]

Interesting, Derveyanchenko had a 24-1 record in the WSB. I don't see why the WSB records shouldn't count as pro-fights, but there's definitely different rules from the pro's.

[Pugilisticuffs]

Good info. Ive seen Loma haters cite those fights to argue that he didn't win the title so quickly

Honestly, the record doesn't really matter. In terms of winning a belt (and then another in another division) quickly Im more impressed with what Monster Inouye did, as he is so young.

Loma was an experienced amateur and an older dude. So winning a belt QUICKLY isn't impressive IMO.

HOWEVER, Loma IS very impressive. True p4p talent, and beating good fighter in Russell & Axeman in 2 divisions is p4p worthy.

So this doesn't really change my opinion of Loma.

Thanks. I just found out myself about the ABC's ruling on the WSB days ago, despite it happening nearly 7 months back. The conference was held for six days from July 29th through August 3rd and covered not just amateur & pro boxing but also MMA, Kickboxing & Muay Thai, which the ABC also oversees through their Unified Rules and sanctioning. If a SAC (State Athletic Commission) or TAC (Tribal Athletic Commission) isn't available in a given region to officially sanction bouts then they, the ABC, can step in to do it directly. I haven't heard a peep about these rulings (for BoxRec too) from any of the boxing media that I follow or from any of today's so-called "new media" outlets. This officially changes some things both in retrospect and also likely in going forward.

Good post though. I actually agree with you that what Naoya Inoue accomplished is a more impressive feat. He won a major world title in two divisions in only 8 fights. He was a solid amateur but nothing elite, let alone an elite of the elite amateur talent like a Lomachenko, Rigondeaux or Zou Shiming. He never medaled at the World Championships, where he competed there as a Youth, or at the Olympics, since he lost in the final at the Astana, Kazakhstan qualification tournament.

[Pugilisticuffs]

Interesting, Derveyanchenko had a 24-1 record in the WSB. I don't see why the WSB records shouldn't count as pro-fights, but there's definitely different rules from the pro's.

The World Series of Boxing or "WSB" is AIBA's own creation. It's a gray area. It was initially meant to be a hybridization of amateur boxing with a pro-style look & feel that would allow amateurs to retain their Olympic eligibility and to help bridge the gap between the ams and pros. The WSB bouts that are recognized/counted haven't been scratched altogether from Fight Fax's official record books. They'll still be listed on the Fight Fax records (record list printouts) that SACs, promoters, matchmakers, etc have access to see but they're now to be treated independently so that they're separated from standard professional matches.

Many WSB bouts have been previously counted by Fight Fax as full professional fights. All six of Lomachenko's WSB bouts were counted, despite these bouts being sanctioned in regions of the world that are out of the ABC's, and therefore Fight Fax's, reach/jurisdiction. On-the-record they're still there, but, they don't count toward the total of fully recognized professional matches for fighters that competed/compete in it. Off-the-record, it's optional to announce. Whether or not the fighter's record is announced with them included during fights is up to them/their team. Lomachenko can optionally be announced as either 7-1 or as 13-1. Usyk can optionally be announced as either 11-0 or as 17-0.