Comments Thread For: Santa Cruz: Frampton Trilogy is Up To My Promoter, Manager

[JASON SHAW]

exactly who is his promoter..the manager is haymon...

Either way i dont need a trilogy..santa cruz won both fights and the 2nd one was even wider...10 rounds to 2...8 to 4 if im generous to carl..

Carl willd drop his hands until the day he retires and be the same fighter that isnt very creative and gets by with athleticism..if u're longer/taller and have above average technique and punch placement u're going to beat him..

whoever godfather HAYMON picks as the promoter for the fight thats who the promoter is..... The check is always phat though..... $1 mill for frampton, $900k for leo, $375k for mikey and $320k for dejan....

[rrayvez]

Uh oh. Good luck to Frampton landing that trilogy. Last time Santa cruz started that "it's up to my manager/promoter" talk, he avoided rigo for life.

[Patsfan bri]

I really respect Frampton but he had to fight in the US to really build his name and he had done just that. He is a house hold name now .

[Dana White Sr]

I honestly don't really care. This "rivalry" has serious systemic problems. One, they have wailed away at each other for 24 rounds without a single knockdown. The most either has even been hurt was a temple shot that ****ed up Leo's balance for like 2 miliseconds. That's it. So the fights have become very repetitive with guys just wailing on each other with no ability to hurt each other at least thats what it seems like.

The other problem is they are both good guys who ducked Rigo and are not on the level of Rigo at 122, Loma when he was at 126, even prime Donaire at 122 beats both, Mikey when he was at 126, Oscar Valdez would beat both in my opinion, Jo Jo Diaz Jr. would box circles around both unless he got KO'd, Nicolas Walters if he was still at 126 would beat both in my opinion....

So we got two guys who are not the best in their division, who both avoided the best guy in their last division, who are both nice guys with nothing to say that could build any storylines, and oh yeah it seems neither one is a big puncher at 126...

Don't get me wrong, the first fight was actually my fight of the year in 2016... But, 2016 was a terrible year, and Frampton had a career best performance that surprised people, which added suspense to the first fight, and it kept going back and forth to some extent, and it was Leo's first credible opponent in a long time so there was an emotional "in" hoping he would maybe lose so we'd get better matchups or whatever.

But he did lose, so if that was justice, then justice was done in that case, but the problem is Leo legitimately seems to let Al and his dad pick his opponents for him, and Leo is such a good dude, and family members of his have had very difficult health problems, so Leo is like the last fighter you would ever root against. I am a fan. So rooting against Leo was a one-time situation only, and in truth it wasn't even Leo responsible for ducking Rigo and all the bad matchups, it was Al Haymon...

So who is the villain then? Frampton? Nah he also seems like a great guy.

Not that you need a villain to have a good rivalry, or to sustain interest through a trilogy. But I mean, you need something more than say #4 and #5 in a division they've blown up into, with zero animosity towards each other, trading ultimately ineffective punches (in terms of hurting opponents) for 12 rounds.

Like where is the interest supposed to come from exactly? It doesn't come from story lines because there basically are none in this rivalry. It doesn't come from suspenseful action because it's not suspenseful when neither guy can hurt the other at all. It doesn't come from relevance of competing to be the best in their division because this is the matchup that was made to AVOID fighting the best at 122, not to prove who the best is. If Al Haymon's universe being cut off from most the truly elite fighters in the sport wasn't enough to make PBC matchups feel detached and irrelevant in many cases, he cut these two off even more from the relevancy and intrigue of their division by keeping them away from all the truly dynamic and/or big punching fighters in their division and by only having them fight each other and other blown up 122 pounders.

Not to mention, Frampton did not win a single round clean in the 2nd fight. It was a blowout. But even if it had been close, it's become hard to care for the reasons I just described. This rivalry is desperately in need of being contextualized and connected to the best of the division, and the likes of Abner Mares and Lee Selby don't count until they prove they can beat the best in the division, which Mares already failed to demonstrate when he lost fairly wide to maybe the 4th best fighter in the division in Santa Cruz.

But if Frampton fought Valdez, and Santa Cruz fought Jo Jo Diaz, or vice versa, and both won, then the rivalry would be interesting again because then you'd know it was to decide the best in the division. Or if one of them beat Gary Russell but even Gary Russell needs contextualization because outside of being schooled by Lomachenko, he hasn't beaten a top featherweight either, which again, is the whole problem with PBC.

Instead, because none of them are fighting each other besides Frampton and Leo, all we have to go on is the eye test, and the eye test tells me Valdez would dominate both of them, and Jo Jo Diaz would outbox and beat up both of them, making this rivalry, as is sadly often the case with PBC shows, feel like junior varsity. And junior varsity just is not as interesting. Fights between two offensive fighters who don't seem capable of the one of the most fundamental aspects of offense, hurting their opponent in this weight class, become quite bland once you realize this the case.

So I definitely understand if Irish fans want an immediate rematch, because they do have emotional investment in this rivalry, but for everyone else, the rematch was a huge letdown, and the entire division is decontextualized and in need of a major shakeup, full of guys who either aren't fighting each other or who are blown up 122s who moved up without fighting the best at 122 either. It's just boring. Frampton and Santa Cruz are both warriors and true gentlemen of the sport, very talented, very dedicated, just amazing people it looks like, but this is boring. Maybe they should be fighting at 122. Or maybe they both just have iron chins but if that's the case, then Oscar Valdez is waiting, and let's get that context this rivalry lacks so much.

If they beat Valdez, can take all his shots and hurt him, then that proves these guys actually just have elite chins, and actually are elite in the division and actually do have a champion's power at 126 but it was just getting wasted on each other's great chins. It could actually prove this is for #1 in the division, and a P4P spot.

But from the eye test so far, what I feel is more likely is we find out that these guys don't have enough power at 126 to be #1 in the division, and Oscar Valdez will show that their chins are good but also crackable against a real top 3 guy at 126... And if that happens, it will prove why I was so bored watching this rematch last night, and prove why this matchup is now stale and desperately, desperately needs contextualization and proof-of-relevance to the top of the featherweight division, which can only be achieved if these guys fight a top featherweight first before making the trilogy fight.

Which, by the way, neither one has still ever done. Leo only fought Mares, another blown up 118 pounder, and Frampton only fought Quigg before facing Leo. Quigg is also a blown up 122 pounder, so you can see really start to see the underlying problem with this rivalry, and why it felt so disappointing and hollow watching the rematch despite all the hype coming off a legitimately close and entertaining fight last year. This division really needs a shakeup. Valdez-Gary Russell Jr. is also a worthwhile fight, then put Leo with Jo Jo Diaz which is a great style fight, and then you can make a nice action fight with the two names left without a dance partner, Frampton and Mares, and then you can go from there. But keep going on the same track with this monotonous rivalry and I think it will just get really boring and feel very random.

guys like you complain about every fvking about this sport and never satisfied with anything!

[Cheek busting]

I really respect Frampton but he had to fight in the US to really build his name and he had done just that. He is a house hold name now .

Lol - he was a household name in UK before, and capable of making just as much (if not MORE) money in UK.

His fight against Quigg he made more money than he did against Santa Cruz.


This is a NEW ERA of boxing - America no longer has "the best fighters" in the world - nowadays, boxers should have to travel all over to prove themselves - Russia, Germany, UK, Australia, New Zealand, Ireland...

This ain't the 60's through 90's anymore where black Americans dominated...

Times, they are a changing...

[Pigeons]

So Pigeons when Hatton fought Floyd in Vegas that was a hometown fight for Hatton because his fans sang loudly in the crowd?

Is Mayweather from Mexico?

[jjsmyth87]

Of course when he lost he kept calling for and demanding a rematch which he obviously got and now that he won and has the title he says it's up to his promoter /manager. Looks like he doesn't want a rematch

[PRchamp]

A rubbermatch can happen but it can happen somewhere down the line.

Santa Cruz vs Russell
Frampton vs Selby

Mares vs Valdez or give Claudio Marrero a title show he's a dark horse of the 126 division

[turnedup]

Here we go with the bullsht "my manager, my promoter." I hate when fighters do that sht, grow a pair and say the truth that you either do or don't want the trilogy. He's not under Don King, if he wants it they'll make it happen.

[turnedup]

Lol - he was a household name in UK before, and capable of making just as much (if not MORE) money in UK.

His fight against Quigg he made more money than he did against Santa Cruz.


This is a NEW ERA of boxing - America no longer has "the best fighters" in the world - nowadays, boxers should have to travel all over to prove themselves - Russia, Germany, UK, Australia, New Zealand, Ireland...

This ain't the 60's through 90's anymore where black Americans dominated...

Times, they are a changing...

It's the same thing that happened with baseball, people from other countries picked up the sport and got good at it. You see a lot of homerism here against european and asian fighters, same way mofo's used to sit in the stands screaming rice and beans at Dominican baseball players when they started hitting the major leagues in droves. People need to get a grip and respect skill, skill and athleticism isn't a regional thing, especially in boxing.